Analyzing technique for heavy-handed IPAs

[BilboBrewin]

I'm getting fairly comfortable with my overall process for producing juicy, late-hop heavy IPAs, but I'd appreciate some help analyzing it a bit further. Some questions are more in general, others specific to the style.

1. I mash using a cooler and lose a degree or two during the hour long mash - if I want to mash at 150, should I aim to start at 151 and have it drop to 149-150 over the hour, or should I aim for 150 right away and have it drop to 148-149?

2. I have been getting better efficiency since I have stirred more, with my recent practice being to stir a ton at the start, then for a bit at 15, 30, and 45 minutes in + take a temperature reading at each. Should I only be stirring at the start? Is my temperature dropping more because of stirring/checking temperature too often?

3. I use pellet hops in the boil and am wondering how to account for wort loss. I use a MegaPot 1.2 with gallon markings. Last batch my boil started right at 4 gallons, after the boil was around 3.8, after chilling around 3.5, but I only got about 2.8 gallons into the fermentor (I used nine ounces of hops and would guess .2g of equipment loss from the kettle). Does .5g absorption for 9oz of pellet hops seem reasonable, or may I be undershooting my equipment loss? (Have had trouble nailing my strike/sparge water amounts and this could help.)

4. I tend to cold crash in my kegerator for 3 days before kegging. Is this a good amount for dry-hopped beers?

Thank you in advance for all replies. I could have made four threads, but since it concerns one style of beer, I figured it may be better this way. Feel free to answer one question or multiple, any help/discussion is greatly appreciated!

 

[Citizen86]

1. I mash using a cooler and lose a degree or two during the hour long mash - if I want to mash at 150, should I aim to start at 151 and have it drop to 149-150 over the hour, or should I aim for 150 right away and have it drop to 148-149?

One degree isn't going to make a huge difference. But 150 and going down to 148 sounds fine for an IPA, you generally want very fermentable and dry.

2. I have been getting better efficiency since I have stirred more, with my recent practice being to stir a ton at the start, then for a bit at 15, 30, and 45 minutes in + take a temperature reading at each. Should I only be stirring at the start? Is my temperature dropping more because of stirring/checking temperature too often?

Yeah for sure, opening the mash tun is going to allow more heat to escape. However, opening it 4+ times and only losing 2 degrees doesn't sound too bad.

4. I tend to cold crash in my kegerator for 3 days before kegging. Is this a good amount for dry-hopped beers?

Sounds fine

 

[BilboBrewin]

Yeah for sure, opening the mash tun is going to allow more heat to escape. However, opening it 4+ times and only losing 2 degrees doesn't sound too bad.

Thanks for the reply My last batch read 153 after 5 and 15 minutes, then read 152 after 30 and 45 minutes (went higher than normal as am trying WLP 007) - did not take a reading but by those four readings am guessing it would have read 151 after 60 minutes.

I guess the question becomes, is there any benefit to stirring it four times? Or is one really good stir enough?

 

[Sammy86]

1. I mash using a cooler and lose a degree or two during the hour long mash - if I want to mash at 150, should I aim to start at 151 and have it drop to 149-150 over the hour, or should I aim for 150 right away and have it drop to 148-149?





2. I have been getting better efficiency since I have stirred more, with my recent practice being to stir a ton at the start, then for a bit at 15, 30, and 45 minutes in + take a temperature reading at each. Should I only be stirring at the start? Is my temperature dropping more because of stirring/checking temperature too often?

I only stir once...I use a cooler mash tun as well with a CPVC manifold and only lose .5° during the hour and have been consistently getting 78-82% efficiency...you are definitely losing heat every time you open up the tun so I would make sure everything is stirred in no dough balls and let it do its thing...i don't have an explanation as to why you're getting better efficiency when you stir more but I'm sure someone here does...I believe I've seen videos in pro tuns where the grist is continually being mixed but I could be completely off base here.

3. I use pellet hops in the boil and am wondering how to account for wort loss. I use a MegaPot 1.2 with gallon markings. Last batch my boil started right at 4 gallons, after the boil was around 3.8, after chilling around 3.5, but I only got about 2.8 gallons into the fermentor (I used nine ounces of hops and would guess .2g of equipment loss from the kettle). Does .5g absorption for 9oz of pellet hops seem reasonable, or may I be undershooting my equipment loss? (Have had trouble nailing my strike/sparge water amounts and this could help.)

I throw everything into the fermentor so I can't really help you here...sorry

4. I tend to cold crash in my kegerator for 3 days before kegging. Is this a good amount for dry-hopped beers?

72 hours is fine...I usually do 24-48 hours and all my beers are perfectly clear in a week or 2 in the keg I don't mind a little haze here and there I think it gives the beer some character and besides our brewing fore fathers didn't have clearing agents and clear beer so why should we?

 

[Rustyhub]

9oz of hops in a 5 gallon boil? You must be quite the hop head, sir. And that's not a cheap brew either haha.

I don't know if this helps, but when I brew a 5 gallon batch (so a 7.5 gallon boil), I lose about 1.5 gallons to equipment and trub loss. But I tend to go a little bigger in the boil because I don't like all the cold break going into the carboy, so I lose quite a big more.

That being said, the most hop heavy IPA that I brew uses about 4 oz hops total. With 2oz of that being dry hops, so I'm not quite sure what 9oz in the boil would do as far as wort loss.

 

[BilboBrewin]

72 hours is fine...I usually do 24-48 hours and all my beers are perfectly clear in a week or 2 in the keg I don't mind a little haze here and there I think it gives the beer some character and besides our brewing fore fathers didn't have clearing agents and clear beer so why should we?

My beers have been pretty hazy, which I think is more attributed to 1. using WYEAST 1318 and 2. using a ton of hops (sometimes close to 5 oz of hops per 1 gallon of beer) than it is due to cold crashing... they clear a little in the keg, but not much. I personally do not care about haze, I would not add an unnecessary step to introduce haze, but if my technique/recipe results in hazy beer that happens to be delicious, who cares?

 

[BilboBrewin]

9oz of hops in a 5 gallon boil? You must be quite the hop head, sir. And that's not a cheap brew either haha.

Even worse - I used 9oz of hops in a 4 gallon boil :rockin:

.25oz Columbus @ 60
1.25oz Centennial @ 10
2.5oz Centennial @ 5
5oz Centennial @ flameout

It wasn't cheap, but since I've started to buy hops by the pound, it wasn't too bad

 

[Rustyhub]

Even worse - I used 9oz of hops in a 4 gallon boil :rockin:

.25oz Columbus @ 60
1.25oz Centennial @ 10
2.5oz Centennial @ 5
5oz Centennial @ flameout

It wasn't cheap, but since I've started to buy hops by the pound, it wasn't too bad

I mean, don't get me wrong. Sounds delicious. I just haven't worked up the courage to add 30 dollars in hops to one brew yet. Maybe when I get a raise I'll try one out.

 

[Sammy86]

My beers have been pretty hazy, which I think is more attributed to 1. using WYEAST 1318 and 2. using a ton of hops (sometimes close to 5 oz of hops per 1 gallon of beer) than it is due to cold crashing... they clear a little in the keg, but not much. I personally do not care about haze, I would not add an unnecessary step to introduce haze, but if my technique/recipe results in hazy beer that happens to be delicious, who cares?

Maybe try some gelatin then...that will clear them up right quick...and according to our friend Marshall at Brülosophy you can't taste the difference either!

 

[Citizen86]

Even worse - I used 9oz of hops in a 4 gallon boil :rockin:

.25oz Columbus @ 60
1.25oz Centennial @ 10
2.5oz Centennial @ 5
5oz Centennial @ flameout

It wasn't cheap, but since I've started to buy hops by the pound, it wasn't too bad

No dry hopping? I would suggest moving 10 minutes to 5, 5 to flameout, and take those 5oz of hops and dry hop them after fermentation. Maybe even 2oz for a couple days and 3oz for a couple more before packaging. That should add a lot more fresh hop character to your brew

 

[BilboBrewin]

No dry hopping? I would suggest moving 10 minutes to 5, 5 to flameout, and take those 5oz of hops and dry hop them after fermentation. Maybe even 2oz for a couple days and 3oz for a couple more before packaging. That should add a lot more fresh hop character to your brew

The 9oz is just what is in it already - am planning to add 1oz pellets to fermentor at tail end and then 2oz leaf in the keg. Will probably only have 2.5 gallons go into the keg.

 

[BilboBrewin]

Maybe try some gelatin then...that will clear them up right quick...and according to our friend Marshall at Brülosophy you can't taste the difference either!

I'm not looking to reduce the haze as I don't see any flavor benefit to it. This was from Craft Beer & Brewing, Feb-Mar 2016 issue, page 69:

"One of the characteristics of the so-called New England IPA is the haziness of the beers. Traditionally, IPAs are clear beers, but many of the more popular IPAs in New England are hazy - or 'turbid' if you talk to the founder of a popular chain of beer stores in New England.

'It's a pretty controversial topic,' says [Jean-Claude] Tetreault [of Trillium Brewing]. We're primarily holding aroma and flavor in the highest regard. Everything else falls secondary to that. It was pretty jarring when we brewed our first batch and we looked at it in a glass and asked, 'What are we going to do?' Then we tasted it and said, 'This is right.' Now, when we have a beer that isn't hazy, people ask whether something went wrong.'

[Noah] Bissell [of Bissell Brothers Brewing] agrees. 'Our beers are pretty hazy. Beers don't have to be clear if you're making hoppy beers.'"

 

[shorestyle]

Don't worry about a degree or 2 difference (especially in Fahrenheit). It's splitting hairs. Stirring your mash constantly is overkill in my opinion. I'm a brewer at a commercial brewery. We don't have mash rakes so we stir our mash by hand while mashing in and then don't touch it at all during the rest and get around 90% efficiency. You shouldn't worry too much about mash efficiency numbers unless you're on welfare. Consistency is more important and knowing your system.

That being said, if you want to improve your efficiency focus on your lautering. If you're fly sparging try to keep a minimal amount of sparge water on top of your grain bed (like an inch or less). That will minimize channeling. It may lead to a slower sparge but it will improve your efficiency. Also, rake your mash before starting your run off. Beta glucans (that greyish sludge that forms on top of your mash) can also cause poor lautering and helps a lot of they're not floating on top of your grain bed. Take a gravity reading of your last runnings to get an idea of how efficient your sparge is. You should try to be in the 1.010-1.015 range.

For creating a juicy IPA I've heard of a method of dry hopping ~1 Plato before your terminal gravity. I haven't done it myself but tastes results from others doing it and it's fantastic

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I keg and don't find a reason to cold crash. Keg the beer, dry hop it in the keg for 4-5 days with a paint strainer bag/dental floss. When you pull the dry hop bag out, add some gelatin and your beer is crystal clear. Fully carbed, dry hopped, and clear in a week.

 

[cegan09]

Maybe try some gelatin then...that will clear them up right quick...and according to our friend Marshall at Brülosophy you can't taste the difference either!

Funny that you mention him, but his latest article was about trying to clear these style of beers and found that gelatin really did not work. The bigger take away should be that the haze isn't some byproduct of sloppy or lazy brewing, but actually just a side affect of making the style. Embrace it.

 

[HopHeavy]

Funny that you mention him, but his latest article was about trying to clear these style of beers and found that gelatin really did not work. The bigger take away should be that the haze isn't some byproduct of sloppy or lazy brewing, but actually just a side affect of making the style. Embrace it.

Do you mean this Brulosophy xBMTS article? Doesn't seem to indicate there was any detrimental effect of gelatin fining identified, either.

 

[brew_darrymore]

3. I use pellet hops in the boil and am wondering how to account for wort loss.

Over time and based on my experience, I calculate wort loss to be 0.08 gallons per ounce of pellet hops.

I don't strain the wort and some hop debris will make it into the fermenter. I just try to keep the thickest hop slurry in the kettle.

 

[cegan09]

Do you mean this Brulosophy xBMTS article? Doesn't seem to indicate there was any detrimental effect of gelatin fining identified, either.

Right, nothing detrimental, but not a ton to be gained either. The beer got slightly clearer, but not much. Tons of people have been up in arms about how the haze is due to "sloppy" or "lazy" practices and how it could easily be cleared. He just proved that isn't so. Hazy comes with the style.

I was pointing out that Sammy86 was claiming a quick hit of gelatin would make it crystal clear when there is proof of this not being true.

 

[BilboBrewin]

Over time and based on my experience, I calculate wort loss to be 0.08 gallons per ounce of pellet hops.

I don't strain the wort and some hop debris will make it into the fermenter. I just try to keep the thickest hop slurry in the kettle.

This is super, super useful and completely explains why my amount of wort plummets when transferring to the fermentor.

I am considering dropping the straining. It is a fine mesh screen and I have to keep moving the hop sludge around with a butter knife for wort to go through, which adds a good 10-15 minutes. I do whirlpool and let it sit before opening up the valve, so the thickest hop slurry should still be in the kettle with my current technique.

 

[BilboBrewin]

Right, nothing detrimental, but not a ton to be gained either. The beer got slightly clearer, but not much. Tons of people have been up in arms about how the haze is due to "sloppy" or "lazy" practices and how it could easily be cleared. He just proved that isn't so. Hazy comes with the style.

I was pointing out that Sammy86 was claiming a quick hit of gelatin would make it crystal clear when there is proof of this not being true.

I fully agree. Some styles are easy to clear, some are not. Big, juicy IPAs - where an extraordinarily large amount of hops are added late - are often hazy for multiple reasons: the sheer amount of hops, the yeast used, how fresh it is served, etc.

A great example is this video where the creator of Heady Topper opens a fresh can and then a nine month old can - the difference in color and clarity is astounding! I have had plenty of fresh Heady and one (accidentally) aged Heady... guess which is better? Hint: not the clear one.

 

[Invertalon]

You guys are hop lightweights! Haha

My IPA's dry hop alone is typically in the 6-8oz range for 5gal. My last DIPA was at 21oz total hops. It was incredible! I buy my hops in bulk though, so my cost per ounce is probably $1-1.50oz typically.

I do first wort hopping, boil additions, hefty hop stands, dry hop, etc... My batch size is 5.75 into the fermenter, with usually 4.5-4.75 making it into the keg due to hop loss. I adjust my loss to trub and hopping .10/gal for every 1oz used in the boil/whirlpool. Usually my post boil volume is something like 6.5-7 gallon, with quite a bit of loss. My IPA's have been incredible though, so no plans on changing my heavy handed approach. They end up really juicy and aromatic, the aroma is still pungent after three months in the keg. I don't filter/fine my IPA's at all and they typically are turbid regardless of my yeast used. Usually don't clear, either.

I couldn't imagine only using 4-6oz total for an IPA for 5-Gal unless it was a session or something.

 

[BilboBrewin]

You guys are hop lightweights! Haha

My IPA's dry hop alone is typically in the 6-8oz range for 5gal. My last DIPA was at 21oz total hops.

I'm pretty close to and/or in your territory - my last 5g batch had 18oz total hops and my current 2.8g batch will get 4oz over two dry-hops