All "my" homebrew tastes the same!

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camonick said:
My very first question in post #2 was in regards to the source water. What I wanted to know, was if it was tap water treated with chlorine/chloramines. My answer, then, would have been to treat with campden tablets. I am very sensitive to that flavor, having lived on a rural private well my entire life and not drinking water that’s chlorinated. Every beer I’ve ever had from other brewers who don’t treat their city tap water has the same underlying flavor to me regardless of style. OP stated they used bottled water from the store. Later on other questions and beliefs about bottled water and RO/DI water were posted that weren’t being understood/ accepted. There were actually quite a few posts deleted or modified by a moderator, which makes it hard to understand the context of some of the conversation. These sometimes do go sideways when the OP stops participating, which was in post #8. Maybe they are still lurking or have been scared off. If they’re still following, narrowing down the “flavor” will certainly yield more useful banter. Here’s a list of common “off flavors” they can look at.
https://learn.kegerator.com/off-flavors-in-beer/
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Agree. My first beers all were made using tap water, which I later determined was chloramine treated. Takes a while to sort out all these issues for a new brewer. Things improved greatly after I switched out the water source.

Back then you were chasing down all sorts of issues affecting the beer, fermentation temperatures, sanitation, wrong yeasts, insufficient starters, etc. So many issues all at once.

The chloramine produces chlorophenols which are easily detected. I can’t tolerate phenols in beer. I’ve long believed that a lot of phenolic tasting “Belgian” beers at local breweries are from their phenolic reject tank! Then they get rid of it to unsuspecting clients one flight at a time!
 

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camonick said:
My very first question in post #2 was in regards to the source water. What I wanted to know, was if it was tap water treated with chlorine/chloramines. My answer, then, would have been to treat with campden tablets. I am very sensitive to that flavor, having lived on a rural private well my entire life and not drinking water that’s chlorinated. Every beer I’ve ever had from other brewers who don’t treat their city tap water has the same underlying flavor to me regardless of style. OP stated they used bottled water from the store. Later on other questions and beliefs about bottled water and RO/DI water were posted that weren’t being understood/ accepted. There were actually quite a few posts deleted or modified by a moderator, which makes it hard to understand the context of some of the conversation. These sometimes do go sideways when the OP stops participating, which was in post #8. Maybe they are still lurking or have been scared off. If they’re still following, narrowing down the “flavor” will certainly yield more useful banter. Here’s a list of common “off flavors” they can look at.
https://learn.kegerator.com/off-flavors-in-beer/
Click to expand...
But why do you go straight to water chem when his question is so vague and nobody ever figured out what the “taste” is? Like I said it could be anything from a band aid infection to underattenuation to oxidation to yes, water. The point is, nobody knows because it was never answered.
 
bwible said:
But why do you go straight to water chem when his question is so vague and nobody ever figured out what the “taste” is? Like I said it could be anything from a band aid infection to underattenuation to oxidation to yes, water. The point is, nobody knows because it was never answered.
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Seemed like a relevant question to me with such a vague post. We had to start somewhere. He answered that question quickly in post #7 and gave a few more vague details in post #8, then never returned. Aren’t these topics a process of elimination? I can’t help it that OP never returned for more help. The other conversation admittedly derailed when another poster asked questions about other water issues. Several of us then, tried to explain that his beliefs weren’t entirely correct, but we were never able to tell them what they already knew what they wanted to hear.
 
Since this thread went in a direction of interest to me and seems to still be running (for better or worse), I'd like to confirm something I read above in relation to my own brews.

I have just started all grain stove top BIAB. Before that I did extract/steeping and some partial mash. I have only done a couple AG brews and the last one was a Dubbel which is just finishing fermentation (been at OG for the last 5 days, but I let it sit for a full 21 just to be sure its cleaned up). After I took the last reading I did a taste and I think (mind you I may be paranoid) that I taste a very slight flavor that I could only describe as medicinal. It is very slight and I am hoping a month or two it clears or recedes even further to the background. I used OYL-028 Belgian Ale W which I believe is the same strain as Wyeast 3787 and I have heard that 3787 can have phenolic issues if it stresses, which I don't think mine did. I pitched at 64 and fermentation free rose to 72 where I held it until it was finished. I pitched a full package (just at 3 months old) and allowed a 5 hour vitality starter before pitching (this is a 2.5 gallon batch).

I use tapwater, but run it through a carbon filter that should remove chlorine, but maybe not chloramine as thoroughly (I have read conflicting reports).

@Beermeister32 above mentioned choramine producing chlorophenols. I am thinking my issue is water related as my sanitation practices are thorough and my setup simple and I have never noticed this before on any beers. My question is, do you think carbon filtering is enough or should I add Campden tablets as well and would that clear chlorine or chloramine well enough to start? (I'm not sure what my city water uses)

I know I will need to get into water tests and PH at some point, but I would like to get my other processes down first... I can only afford so many steps at one time.

Thanks for any input, and forgive if I should have started a new thread....
 
I’ve heard carbon filtering isn’t enough and Campden tablets would take days to fully clear chloramine. Chlorine easily; chloramine days and days. So what’s a home brewer to do…

So now I buy jug water and build up the right mineral profile. A lot of brewers use RO water too.

Our SoCal water supply smells organic half the time anyway, reservoir water…. good riddance!
 
dmtaylor said:
What do you use as your fermentation vessel? Have you replaced your hoses recently? What do you use to sanitize?
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SS brewing stainless 5 gallon conical - I use starsan
I really don't think the beer is infected, it just has the familiar home brew taste
 
@Beermeister32, makes sense, Thanks. Looks like I'll be getting into water/mineral profiles faster than I expected. Always something new in this hobby.

Update: Just read AJ DeLange post in Brew Science - pretty simple way to begin from RO. I think I can manage that.
 
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Beermeister32 said:
I’ve heard carbon filtering isn’t enough and Campden tablets would take days to fully clear chloramine. Chlorine easily; chloramine days and days. So what’s a home brewer to do…

So now I buy jug water and build up the right mineral profile. A lot of brewers use RO water too.

Our SoCal water supply smells organic half the time anyway, reservoir water…. good riddance!
Click to expand...

I've never heard of campden taking a long time to remove chloramine, my understanding is that it happens rather quickly.
 
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jd350b said:
Why is it that all my home brew regardless of style, tastes like...home brew!
I have been doing this for decades on and off. I used to do all extract and have been doing all grain for the last 5 years or so. I only brew about 6 or 7, 5 gallon batches a year, so by no means an expert.
What got me thinking about this, is that micro breweries do not have this common "home brew" taste.
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I remember hearing about homebrewed beers having a noticeable ‘twang’ to them. Mostly due to too high of a mash or fermentation temperature, or both.
 
Beermeister32 said:
I believe the process takes longer and involved to process out chloramine than chlorine. Hence the frequent problem a lot of brewers have with phenols.
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AJ's article is specifically about chloramines, not chlorine. Seriously, many thousands of homebrewers rely on KMeta or NaMeta removing chloramines very quickly. And most of the pros I've worked with do also. But if in doubt, it's not hard to test.

It's interesting that you mention the phenol problem. But I can't recall any threads where chloramines turned out to be the cause when campden was used.
 
Beermeister32 said:
... and Campden tablets would take days to fully clear chloramine. Chlorine easily; chloramine days and days. So what’s a home brewer to do…
...
Click to expand...
Beermeister32 said:
I believe the process takes longer and involved to process out chloramine than chlorine. Hence the frequent problem a lot of brewers have with phenols.
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References please. You are contradicting A J deLange, who is a recognized water chemistry expert.

Brew on :mug:
 
Beermeister32 said:
Tons of info on the internet about this, it can indeed be a chore to clean up adequately. Many articles, was easier with chlorine. Now chloramine. What’s next…

https://www.commercialfiltrationsup...move-chloramines-from-water-when-brewing.html
Click to expand...

Yes, it's easier to remove chlorine than chloramines if you are just letting the water stand or are boiling it. With campden, it's just as easy (from a practical standpoint) for chloramines as it is for free chlorine.

The link you provided talks about standing, and boiling (neither of which is practical), but doesn't mention campden. It goes on to recommend a filtration system. And they happen to sell those. Gosh, I wonder why they skipped right past campden.
 
Days and days may be a stretch, that would be for it to naturally dissipate. It’ a tougher substance to clean up that is for sure. More difficult with carbon filters. My beer improved radically once it was changed to bottled.
 
Good info all around. I plan to continue using my carbon filter, which I have attached to a pre-softener spigot, and I'll add in the use of campden tablets to hit the easy bases. In the meantime I'll read through the chapters on water profiles again and consider using RO and building my own profiles at some point in the future.

AJ's articles really help explain the processes.
 
jd350b said:
SS brewing stainless 5 gallon conical - I use starsan
I really don't think the beer is infected, it just has the familiar home brew taste
Click to expand...

Can you give some specifics of the off-flavors? Describe what you (and others) are tasting? How about body--does it seem thin on the palate, etc.?

The more dialed in you can be on the descripton, the more we can help you. "Familiar homebrew taste" doesn't mean much.

It could be one factor, or several. Without a better description of the problem we're just shooting in the dark.
 

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