All Grain -- When Did You Make The Transition?

[kyoun1e]

So I'm on my second batch and now thinking about my third. Was thinking of doing a Trillium clone and making the switch to all grain.

I did some investigation and not only are there a few more wrinkles, but there also would seem to be additional investment required.

When did you make the switch and why?

Part of me wants to jump right in and keep advancing. Extract brewing seems like "rookie ball."

On the flip side, my first batch is still in bottles and for all I know may taste like crap and my Tank 7 clone may be a dud. And, there's no doubt I need to refine my overall process.

Just curious. I want to make sure I don't bit off more than I can chew.

Thanks!

 

[dstockwell]

Never switched, dove right into no sparge, all grain BIAB on first batch. If your kettle is large enough you could easily switch.

 

[MSK_Chess]

I brew'd one extract kit, a Youngs harvest Scottish heavy. Afterwards watched loads of videos and just jumped right in to all grain. It was probably this video below which made it seem relatively easy and I loved moding up a mash tun from a cooler and making various bits and pieces to facilitate the brewing process. This aspect of engineering home-made solutions was as much fun as the brewing process itself.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iQefnKHvxs[/ame]

 

[Jim311]

I brewed like 5 extract batches. Then I tried a "partial mash" recipe I found online and thought to myself "If I can mash a partial batch in a bag, why can't I mash a whole batch?" This was before I even know what "BIAB" was, and I went online and found lots of people successfully doing the exact same thing. I think all of the terminology was daunting to me initially but when I figured out that basically all-grain brewing was just soaking some grains in warm water it kind of emboldened me to just jump into all grain completely. I never looked back and never made a crappy batch, though there were snags along the way as I dialed in my process.

 

[allanmorgan]

Right from the get go. First batch was a 1 gallon recipe from Brooklyn Brew Shop. I didn't know anything at the time, including having never heard about extract brewing until much later on.

 

[TheHopfather]

I started with 1 gal all grain BIAB myself. It isn't that difficult and the process seems more satisfying to me then using extract. If you are thinking about making the switch look into Brew In A Bag, minimal investment in new equipment and you're making all grain beer.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Never switched, dove right into no sparge, all grain BIAB on first batch. If your kettle is large enough you could easily switch.

Same here. Added a sparge a little later on after I started brewing batches that were a little too big for my BK. I've since refined my BIAB process and upgraded to a larger BK, but still do a small sparge for the bonus efficiency points and better consistency.

 

[mongoose33]

I made the switch on my 4th batch. I'd been thinking about it but what kicked me over the edge was finding a semi-local homebrewer getting out and among the items he had for sale was a mash tun made out of an Igloo cube cooler. He also had a ferm chamber refrigerator, two carboys, an inkbird controller, fastrack bottle rack system, something like 24 bomber bottles, and a host of other stuff--for $150. Yeah, nearly the purchase of the century.

He didn't have a mill. The first couple of all-grain brews used grain crushed at the LHBS, but as I was reading here on HBT it was increasingly clear to me that I wanted to control my own crush, so bought a Barley Crusher. Not a recommendation, I'd probably buy something else if doing it again. Cereal Killer?

**********

I have an opinion on this--IMO, new brewers should master the process using extract, or at least become reasonably comfortable with it, before moving to all-grain. All-grain is all about creating the wort from scratch; once it's in the kettle the process is the same as extract brewing.

Since there are variables in all-grain that can alter the outcome, including crush, mash temps, mash time, mash pH, sparge technique, vorlauf, and so on, it seems to me that it's much easier to isolate a problem if you're not altering a bunch of variables and finding it difficult identify what's wrong.

Your jumping into all-grain will pay off in the long run, but IMO you want to be sure you understand what you're doing from the boil forward. See how the brews turned out, try to figure out what may have been altered to change the result, then move into all-grain.

************

If you can find a local homebrewer who does all-grain and who would allow you to watch the process, that would pay huge dividends and move your learning curve ahead big-time.

**************

Keep the recipes relatively simple the first few times. I see here all the time new brewers (either extract or all-grain) who are trying to clone the Dogfish Zombie Maltster Double Hopster Dusty Stoutier that's currently famous. Then something doesn't work out and it's not clear why. Simple recipe, and produce what's expected, then move to more complicated things.

Oh, at one level it doesn't matter--I just brewed a Dark Lager that has six different grains in it, and once they're crushed in they go. But if you're doing a lot of weird experimenting w/ new stuff and you get a weird flavor, is it the weird recipe that's producing it, or your process? No way to know until you have the process down.

************

So, my 4th batch was all-grain, using grain crushed at the LHBS. So was my 5th. Neither were particularly good--drinkable, but only that. It was the sixth one that hit the jackpot. As I review what happened, I'm sure that much of the issue was water. Once I started using RO water (my local municipal water is very hard, suitable only for very dark beers) and adjusting according to a spreadsheet, my beers took off.

Unless you're going to use RO or Distilled and build up your water with additions, you'll want to get a water report. If municipal, they may have a report that's useful. If not, then send a sample to Wards in Nebraska; when you order they'll send you a collection container and return postage box. A few days later, a specific report on your water as to its suitability for brewing and mineral/chemical components.

*************

One last thing; once you get past the equipment investment which doesn't have to be huge if you do something like BIAB, you can save a ton of money using all-grain. My 2-row barley I get from Ritebrew at 76 cents per pound; double that at the LHBS. I get Maris Otter (my fave malt) from Ritebrew at 98 cents per pound. My LHBS doesn't even offer that.

I buy in 50- or 55-pound sacks and store in buckets with Gamma Seal lids. Right now I have probably 150+ pounds of malt and adjuncts here, ready with which to brew. You save money when you buy in bulk.

Simple recipes I can brew for under $20 for a 5-gallon batch. That's 40 cents per bottle for tasty beer I cannot get in the store at any price. Hoppier beers more, of course, but even then you can buy hops in bulk to get the per-ounce cost down.

Good luck, and enjoy the journey!

 

[Morrey]

I began extract in the early '80's when I only had huge cans of pre-hopped extract, one or two strains of dried yeasts plus a few hop varietals. The beers I made were gosh awful. I basically said why bother since beers like Anchor Steam or Bass Ale (which I wanted to copy) were good and mine was horrible.

I took a break until around 5 years ago and did another extract or two before getting a used 3 vessel all grain system which I determined was very cumbersome in my situation. I shifted to BIAB and happy as a clam with premium quality results.

Since 1980 everything for the home brewer has vastly improved. Even the extract kits are excellent compared to what I started with and basically quit brewing. If you pay attention to sanitation and fermentation temp control, you will make good beers with extract or AG.

Many brewers do extract to feel out the process....4 or 5 extract brews should take care of that. Then AG is a simple shift since you already know the basics of beer making.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Switched to AG BIAB following my second extract batch with steeping grains. I will use extract once in a while when I want to have a quicker brew day, but mostly BIAB. the transition was not costly I just needed a bag, so costs actually went down as grain is generally less expensive. (I know, the cost of fuel is not included in my story)

 

[jrgtr42]

I brewed 10 or a dozen batches before making the switch. Partly because I had a small apartment with not a lot (read: none) storage area for a bunch of equipment and such.
I would encourage you to go all-grain if you want, but I would recommend at least wait until you have results on your brews in progress, and make sure you are comfortable with the process. Have your boils and fermentations on par, your sanitation on point and so on.
There isn't a lot of extra equipment you need, depending on if you want to go BIAB (Brew in a bag) or prefer the more traditional separate mash / sparge route.
If you go BIAB, you just need a big mesh bag and a kettle big enough to hold the grains plus all the water needed (roughly 8gallons for a 5 gallon batch.)
For the other way, you'd need a mash tun - many people use converted coolers, plus a second kettle to heat the sparge water.

 

[joegbeer]

20+ extract brews, kegging with fermentation temp control, ss brewtech bucket, yeast starters, etc. Tons of internet research. Read the brewing elements book set: Yeast, Water, Malt, Hops (Need to read again). Read Brewing Better Beer and thought the author was too arrogant about all-grain vs extract. I never wanted to do all-grain for 2 reasons. First, I could make really good beer. Second, I'm more into the science and less into the MacGyver aspect of all-grain equipment. I want to brew recipes, not cut metal and jury-rig brewstands. Local brew club meeting on DIY all-grain equipment projects was not for me. Kegging pushed the limits of my interest of working with equipment, but I hate bottling so I persevered.

Then the grainfather system released. I followed the hype. I could do all-grain without having to iron out all the system mechanics and parts. Having made the switch, 30+ all grain brews, I'm very glad that I did. While extract can make a great beer, your malt flavor profile options are very restricted. In addition to using any combination of grains, mashing techniques give you so many more options. Once I started all-grain, then better understanding and improving my water chemistry became even more intensified. I'm not a chemist, but I've enjoyed researching and improving in this area.

All-grain gave me more parameters to screw up. So I've had more recipe problems than I did with extract. But as I iron out those learning experiences, I see myself improving as a brewer.

 

[GammaRay4130]

I did 2 extract brews before I jumped into all grain. My first batch wasn't the greatest but the second had really improved. I had gotten my tax refund around this time so I ended up building a cooler mas tun and since I already had a 10 gallon kettle and burner it was all I really needed to make the switch. Still using this same setup 3 years later.

The first all grain was a little intimidating only due to not having gone through it before, but after a couple batches learning my system I got everything dialed in. I say go for it if you can, it only expands the different styles you can brew and the amount of control you have.

 

[shellybaybrewer]

I did 4 pre hoppped extract kits before I went to all grain, my plan was to do a couple partial grain batches before full on all grain but I realised I was only a mash tun away from all grain so I jumped in. The extract batches helped me learn about fermentation temps and how they effect flavour, also helped me dial in bottling process aswell as the general beer making process. My suggestion would be to try you extract beer, if it tastes great then jump into all grain you'll love it! If it tastes not so great then do what I had to do and find out why and remedy the situation before making the switch because off flavours or other problems will remain whether your doing extract or all grain. Somehow it's more disheartening when you have an all grain batch turn out bad than an extract batch turn out bad because you invest a bit more heart and soul. The all grain process was intimidating to me but there's heaps of helpful friendly people on here and a lot of videos on YouTube. Just my view on the matter good luck!!

 

[kyoun1e]

**********

I have an opinion on this--IMO, new brewers should master the process using extract, or at least become reasonably comfortable with it, before moving to all-grain. All-grain is all about creating the wort from scratch; once it's in the kettle the process is the same as extract brewing.

Since there are variables in all-grain that can alter the outcome, including crush, mash temps, mash time, mash pH, sparge technique, vorlauf, and so on, it seems to me that it's much easier to isolate a problem if you're not altering a bunch of variables and finding it difficult identify what's wrong.

I'm leaning in this direction.

On my 2nd brew I could tell that I had shook off a lot of the nerves I had from the first brew, but still, there are still some variables in the process I feel like I haven't nailed.

I think I want to gain some momentum with extracts, keep learning about all grain, produce some beer that actually tastes good, and then move on.

That could change lol...

 

[kh54s10]

I started before BIAB became a thing so I took my time collecting the equipment needed. I did 4 extract and 4 partial mash before I did an all grain. Now sometimes when it is too cold outside, I do some extract batches, just to get some beer in the pipeline.

I never had the desire to only do 1 gallon batches, and since I am not set up for BIAB, I really dislike doing them.

 

[raysmithtx]

I made 2 extract batches then went straight to all grain BIAB and kegging.

Approaching my 100th brew now.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

First batch was extract, then took an all grain class at the LHBS and jumped right in to all grain on batch #2. Nothing too complicated so far, but I have been happy with the results.

 

[Kent88]

After I switched from brewing in LBKs I did a few 1-gallon extract kits. I remembered how much I liked the Oktoberfest I made in the LBKs, so I wanted to make one. I realized that I needed to make it with Munich malt, and couldn't find and dry munich malt extract. I made a 1-gallon batch of Munich Hallertau SMaSH via BIAB and liked it a lot.

Full disclosure, some would say I don't usually all-grain brew. I call it partial-extract. I almost max out my 3-gallon mash-tun before I start adding extract. My batches are typically 1 or 3 gallons.

 

[kyoun1e]

Interesting. Many of you jumped right in but also see some that waited quite a bit.

Have a feeling I'm going to land in the middle somewhere.

I definitely want to see how batch 1 and batch 2 end up. Like another poster said, if they come out lousy, I'd like to figure out why.

I think an immediate next step for me as well is to move away from a kit and just find a recipe, get the ingredients myself, maybe look at different versions of the recipe and make a decision based on the knowledge I've gained so far, etc.

Think there are three potential paths:

1) Batch 1 and 2 taste great! I'm going all in on all grain!
2) Batch 1 and 2 suck. Sticking with extracts for a while.
3) Do a handful more extracts, refine the process, make a couple more investments, go all grain.

My bet is on 3).

And I bet that coincides with me getting a crapload of beer stuff for Xmas.

Thanks!

 

[Funkychef]

Second batch was BIAB, after a lot of reading before buying a home brew kit that had one of those canned jobs I knew I Wanted to try my hand at all grain and with biab the investment was small. The beer was turning out good so I keeped on going. Have had a few bad ones in 3 years but most turn out well enough for me.
Just read lots, there is plenty of information on here.

 

[Murphys_Law]

I did a few partial mash and then moved to BIAB. You basically only need to buy a bag and you're set.

 

[helterscelter]

I made the switch after my first batch. Swmbo bought me a mr. beer lbk kit for christmas. I "brewed" it a thought "huh. just like making soup" .. it turned out terrible. I'm not sure if I messed up or it was just all bad from the start. (I'm not that great at soup either..) I know lots of people make really excellent beer using extract (props!), but something about scraping out a tin-can of syrup to make beer just didn't jive with me.

I went on craig's list and bought a used keggle setup that week. never looked back.

 

[mashinary]

I did maybe 5 or 6 extract batches, then built a mash tun out of a cooler, that was back in '04...

 

[Dcpcooks]

I never did extract. I went right to all grain. To me it offered more flexibility and control of designing beers I wanted. I've helped friends members of our club with extract beers. You can make some great beers with it.

To me the fun is building recipes and understanding/ manipulating the mash process to make what I want( and learn how) I cook for a living so I'd already understood time and temperature theory and conversion of sugars from nutrition classes I was forced to take in culinary school. So I did have a bit of an edge relative to the learning curve.

 

[catdaddy66]

Did extract batches for a long time, like ten years total with a long break of inactivity in the middle.

Was actually convinced to do all grain by 2012 when I read a quote on HBT that said " You can make very good beer with extract. You can craft excellent beer with all grain." Made the jump and have never looked back!