Aging cider - Time limitations?

[johnnyseko]

I bring this up because I just dumped 2 gal of my WLP775 cider down the sink after I was going to bottle. Tested both and it was sour, vinegary terrible. I was curious and did an acid test on it which came out .87% - ewwww. Now these were pitched back in early November and I had stored them away in carboys with airlocks and about an inch of headspace in the neck.

I'm not sure if it was my procedure or what that caused this but it got me thinking about how long this cider might be good for. These were my oldest yet. I haven't had any issues with anything @3 months old or younger.

Is there a 'best before' date for cider? I've read so much about the benefits of aging I am wondering if I need to treat my cider with sulfites for any extended aging. Then once bottled, how long should I expect it to be good for? I don't treat my cider because I'm bottle carbing.

 

[madscientist451]

Did you rack it after primary? How did it taste then?

 

[johnnyseko]

Yes. It was down to .998 after a week and I racked it at 2 weeks. Tasted slightly sweet, fruity but bland - lacking much flavor. I was hoping aging would bring back some of that. I didn't add anything else at racking.

Wow, this was done faster than I remember - before I started keeping track and maintaining temperature.

 

[Maylar]

In my experience, if cider is treated with potassium metabisulfite (or Campden) to a level of 50 ppm, it'll age well and get better with time. The key is to keep it away from oxygen. If your inch of headspace means the neck of a glass carboy, that should be fine. If it's an inch in a brewing bucket such that the upper surface of the cider is exposed, that's not good.

As a note on aging, I entered a cider in competition that was 10 months old and the judges detected a hint of sulfur. The same batch 6 months later in another comp scored 10 points higher with no detectable flaws. If not exposed to oxygen, you can age it a long time.

 

[madscientist451]

Is there a chance it was exposed to oxygen during racking?

 

[FunkyMunk]

Did you notice any white or off-white growth on the surface of the liquid? I had a batch that turned to vinegar on me, and it was obvious that bacterial infection was the culprit. This was also before I had learned to keep oxygen away from my cider, however; aside from oxidizing the cider, it will also exacerbate any bacterial infection that manages to take hold, which I learned the hard way.

As a note on aging, I entered a cider in competition that was 10 months old and the judges detected a hint of sulfur. The same batch 6 months later in another comp scored 10 points higher with no detectable flaws. If not exposed to oxygen, you can age it a long time.

Mind if I ask how you stored your cider between the 10-month and 16-month mark? Not to hijack the thread, but I just kegged my first aged cider (aged 6 months), and it's got noticeable sulfur, but is otherwise good (the sulfur dissipates pretty quickly after pouring).

 

[johnnyseko]

Oxygen was my first thought. But I'm pretty careful when transferring between carboys. I topped it right up into the neck of the carboy and sealed it up. Your question of racking has me wondering if I should have racked it a few more times? There was still a slight bit us sludge at the bottom of the carboy from clearing. I wonder if that could have turned these batches. With my lack of experience, I'm not sure what oxygen spoiled cider would taste like, or off flavors from sitting on lees too long.

I somehow had the idea that if I added campden then I wouldn't be able to bottle carb....more reading today led me to figure that was false. So now I may hit a gallon or two with sulfite and see how that works out.

These were some of my first batches of cider though back in November. In looking at my notes, I certainly wasn't following the best procedures. I just want to make sure cider can be aged and improved without being treated. I'll adjust my process as necessary.

 

[johnnyseko]

Did you notice any white or off-white growth on the surface of the liquid?

Nothing looked 'off' - the cider was still hazy but appeared fine.

Hijack away...it's all part of the conversation.

 

[Maylar]

Mind if I ask how you stored your cider between the 10-month and 16-month mark? Not to hijack the thread, but I just kegged my first aged cider (aged 6 months), and it's got noticeable sulfur, but is otherwise good (the sulfur dissipates pretty quickly after pouring).

Both examples were stored the same way, in capped carboys. I'm now under the opinion that if a batch has some sulfur, you need to "let it out"... so, I'm aging this year's batch with airlocks. Dunno if that will matter or not, or if I get into oxidation problems. Time will (literally) tell.

The difference between them - as best as I can guess - is the second example sat in the keg for an additional 2 months, with an occasional pint being drawn. Perhaps being under CO2 influences the exit of sulfur. This is all conjecture on my part, but I'd be curious to know if your cider loses its sulfur-ness after being in the keg for a while.

 

[Fossey]

I had a simple recipe of 23L pear juice, cup of chopped raisins and 2 kilos of brown sugar.
I had racked it and then set is aside, totally forgetting about it for a couple of years... yep years... it was in my Australian garage and temp fluctuations would be ridiculous as in 50C + in summer and winter down to 3C.
I put it in a controlled temp fridge at 12-15C for another year then finally got around to bottling.
It was awesome in flavour and not off, vinegary or sulphur all... it has an almighty kick...
The air lock was always intact so as long as there is the CO2 blanket, time shouldn't be an issue...

 

[venatorscribe]

That is an unfortunate experience. The acid level looks ok. What was the %ABV. something must have occured during the process. Maybe a wild yeast with nasty fungal charcteristics? I give my ciders plenty of racking over a six to eight month period and treat them with k-meta during the racking. During this period the cider is stored under an air lock. After that I bottle and prime them with sugar and leave for a further five months. Most of my ciders are drunk well after a twelve month period.

 

[johnnyseko]

I thought the acid level was pretty high @.87%. I've been aiming for .65% and have usually had to add malic acid to get it into that range. The ABV was @5.5%. I'm thinking it sat on the additional lees that fell during clearing for too long and some more rackings should have been done. I've been overly worried about oxygen and have not done additional rackings in fear of introducing oxygen or something else - I'll change that. I'm also going to experiment with sulfites in my next batches that are almost ready for racking.

 

[MarkKF]

For the first time in my cidermaking life I noticed I have 5 gal. of cider in a carboy that has been under an airlock in the secondary for over a year. So what is the limit to this kinda aging? Two years? Three?