Again yeast starter

[JLamb]

Ok so I know this question occurs all the time, but I'm looking to get it straight now. Ok so I have a double IPA recipe that has an OG 1.070 and according to my findings that requires a starter.

Second what is the science behind a starter? I understand that it gives you active year to pitch and that it allows you to determine if your yeast is healthy. But what is the real advantage to using a starter opposed to using two vials or just a larger amount of yeast. Does the starter actually make more yeast cells? Or just stronger not active cells to tart fermenting faster. I understand that if you pitch yeast without a starter it will take a longer time to actively start fermenting. Also I have been running across talk of over pitching and under pitching, what are the affects over pitching and the affects of under pitching?

I understand I am asking a lot of question and the content of then might be confusing but and input would help as of now.


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[Holy_Hops]

The basic idea is that a beer of x gravity (say 1.070) needs y billion yeast cells to convert (in this case, 253 billion).

The awesome Mr Malty yeast calculator can do all of this work for you: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

Now you can get the job done - that is, convert sugar to alcohol - with less cells or more cells, but over or under pitching by a wide margin tends to stress the yeast out and give off defects in the finished beer.

How you get to the optimum number, though, is up to you. For that 1.070 beer, according to the calculator, you could pitch 2.6 packs/vials straight up, do a 3 liter starter if you only pitched the yeast & did nothing else, do a 1.75 liter starter with intermittent shaking, or a 1.14 liter starter with a stir plate.

But the bottom line is that for a beer of 1.070, 253 billion cells of yeast is the optimum amount. How you get there is up to you.

 

[kh54s10]

Making a yeast starter is for 2 things, to make sure you are pitching enough yeast cells and to save money.

Making a starter does increase the cell counts and also ensures you are pitching healthy yeast.

For your 1.070 beer you would want to pitch 3 vials of yeast. At $9 each that would be $27. A starter would be the $9 + a couple dollars of DME. If you wash or freeze yeast you can get quite a few brews out of 1 purchase.

As already noted mrmalty.com is a good source of information.

 

[JLamb]

One last question, the dme that is needed for the starter, is it ok to pull from the kits dme or do you need extra dme? I know this might be a dumb question because I know you will be pitching the yeast and wort mixture to the fermenter.


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[aslander]

Use different DME

 

[JLamb]

Use different DME

Just out of curiosity why?


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[smartass]

if you dont want to make a starter you can use safale us05 dry it works good on high gravity worts also make sure you cool the wort to about 65f before pitching.

 

[JLamb]

Hey so I'm finally doing my starter. I have a 2000ml starter flask and one vial of wlp5001 the California ale yeast. Me. Malty says that for a 6 gallon batch with one vial I need a starter of 2.99l which is way more than the flask holds. Am I missing something? The recipe says it will yield 6 gallons but should I do a starter off of a regular 5 gal batch?


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[dhutchings]

In a related question, I'm going to assume the ratio of 2 cups of water:1/2 cup DME holds and if I need to make a 3L starter I'd need 6 cups (2 lbs-ish) of DME?

 

[Croyzen]

In a related question, I'm going to assume the ratio of 2 cups of water:1/2 cup DME holds and if I need to make a 3L starter I'd need 6 cups (2 lbs-ish) of DME?

If working with a flask marked in liters the ratio is 10 to 1. Use a 10 to 1 ratio. Add 1 gram of DME for every 10 ml of final volume. (If you're making a 2 liter starter, add water to 200 grams of DME until you have 2 liters total.)

If you have a refractometer this is another time to play with it. The starter wort should be between 1030-1040. A refractometer verification is an easy way regardless of the size of the starter to make sure you're pitching into something the yeast will like best.

 

[Croyzen]

Hey so I'm finally doing my starter. I have a 2000ml starter flask and one vial of wlp5001 the California ale yeast. Me. Malty says that for a 6 gallon batch with one vial I need a starter of 2.99l which is way more than the flask holds. Am I missing something? The recipe says it will yield 6 gallons but should I do a starter off of a regular 5 gal batch?


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I can't see mr malty from this ipad but did you select "stir plate" in the drop down box? 3L seems high for 1070. Also did you put the correct date for viability? White Labs born on date is 4 months prior to the date on the vial.

 

[JLamb]

I can't see mr malty from this ipad but did you select "stir plate" in the drop down box? 3L seems high for 1070. Also did you put the correct date for viability? White Labs born on date is 4 months prior to the date on the vial.

I did not do a stir plate I'm just intermittently shaking and no I didn't know that about the white labs dates. I ended up just making a starter with one cup DME and 1500 ml of wort. I calculated this by looking at some charts on white labs website. Think it will be ok?

 

[JLamb]

Alright so the vial has May 14 as the date and four months earlier is Feb 14. The recipe says it will yield about 6 gals. This was the results of mr. Malty when I put that in. I am shaking intermittently. Am I missing something?

 

[dhutchings]

If working with a flask marked in liters the ratio is 10 to 1. Use a 10 to 1 ratio. Add 1 gram of DME for every 10 ml of final volume. (If you're making a 2 liter starter, add water to 200 grams of DME until you have 2 liters total.)

So in converting grams to oz, 300 grams is 10.58 oz, or .66 lbs of DME. So would that be correct?

My starter jar is going to be a big-ass 4L-ish glass container with no measurement markings so everything's got to be measured beforehand with measuring cups and scales.

 

[JLamb]

Alright so I made a stepped starter with some new DME and cooled it I about 60f before adding it to the decanted starter that was about 38-40f. The yeast is starting to break up and dissolve again but activity seems sluggish. I understand at colder temps yeast isn't as active. But I'm just worried that I screwed up my yeast.

 

[JLamb]

Krauson is also appearing when shaken so I assume that should indicate the yeast is feeding, but I don't want to jump to conclusions

 

[CA_Mouse]

I did not do a stir plate I'm just intermittently shaking and no I didn't know that about the white labs dates. I ended up just making a starter with one cup DME and 1500 ml of wort. I calculated this by looking at some charts on white labs website. Think it will be ok?

That may be a little high on the gravity for a starter. I use 1 cup (8oz by weight) of DME in 2800ml of water and boil for 15 minutes I will boil off 800ml of wort in that time). That nets me 2000ml of 1.040 starter.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Alright so I made a stepped starter with some new DME and cooled it I about 60f before adding it to the decanted starter that was about 38-40f. The yeast is starting to break up and dissolve again but activity seems sluggish. I understand at colder temps yeast isn't as active. But I'm just worried that I screwed up my yeast.

The yeast will be sluggish until it equalizes to the starter temperature. Most likely it will take an additional 3 to 4 hours to really take off.

 

[JLamb]

The yeast will be sluggish until it equalizes to the starter temperature. Most likely it will take an additional 3 to 4 hours to really take off.

I went out for about three hours and came back to this.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Looks like some happy yeast!

 

[dhutchings]

I think my 3L starter went well - this is how it looks after cold crashing last night and now bringing up to room temperature for brewing a little later today.

there's definitely more yeast in there than was in the White Labs vial on Friday!