Aeration by Electrolysis?

[KiltLifter]

Dangerous? Yes. Possible? Perhaps.

Has anyone ever heard of this? It popped into my head while listening to Basic Brewing Radio this morning. If it works, all you would need is a battery charger and some wire (or something more fancy, zinc, copper, etc.)

Obviously not as good as O2, but most folks have the equipment already. It just sounds like a homebrew gadget!

Plus, it promotes some cool beer names: Granny's Electrolysis Ale, Franken-Brew, Polarity Pale Ale, etc.

Well?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I am just not sure how electrolysis would impart oxygen?

I would siuspect that it would do more to cause any dissolved oxygen that is there to come out of solution. But then, I dunno much about electrolysis. Are you aiming to somehow separate hydrogen and oxygen atoms?

 

[KiltLifter]

Yup, in pure water electrolysis splits the water into Hydrogen and Oxygen, which then bubble up through the water. Don't know what it would do in beer, I'm guessing the same? Don't know how much Hydrogen would dissolve into the beer (Flammable Beer? Flaming-Moe!)

Kinda nuts, but insane people invent lots of cool stuff!

 

[Revvy]

But didn't you catch the end of the podcast where he said those alternative methods may not be working anyway..because even just putting it in the fermenter imparts O2...

I'm gonna stick with my Airstone and little red bottle.

Obligatory N00b Caveat

This discussion is only conjecture...It hasn't been done..If you are brewing for the first time stick with what works...don't be like the n00b a few weeks back that read one of the discussions on Olive Oil on his first day of brewing and decided to dump several ounces of olive oil in his batch...If you don't understand the basic principles of brewing, don't experiment with something, until you have brewed for awhile...Stick to the tried and true methods.


You may proceed with this discussion!

 

[l3lackEyedAngels]

Not sure it would work in beer. When we did it in the seventh grade, we had two electrodes in a saline solution. When we ran a current through, the H2O molecules started breaking into H2 and O2. We observed H2 bubbles coming from the positive electrode, I think, and O2 off of the other. If it would work in beer, not only would you get oxygen, but you'd also decrease the amount of water and increase your specific gravity. Most of each gas would bubble to the surface as opposed to dissolving, and you may have trouble with the gasses collecting in your carboy.

I don't think it would work in beer unless you had some serious potential connected to the electrodes. You'd have to add salt to increase the conductivity of the solution and make battery power feasible.

EDIT: Only mean SWMBOs add salt to beer. In other words, this idea is not a good one.

 

[KiltLifter]

Good call on the caveat!

I have a GREEN bottle ($20 full, gotta love craigslist!) just using a cane for delivery, haven't bought a stone yet.

I wonder if the dissolved sugars would help like salt?

Battery chargers work on a small scale, but a WELDER, now we're cookin!

 

[jds]

That is an interesting idea.

For those not in the know, electrolysis literally splits water molecules into Hydrogen and Oxygen. 2(H20) --> 2H2 + O2. The hydrogen gas collects at the positive electrode and the Oxygen at the negative.

We all know we want to dissolve the oxygen molecules into the beer. It seems that by placing the negative electrode low in the liquid and the hydrogen high, one could give the oxygen more time to dissolve. What I don't know is the effect of the dissolved hydrogen. We'd need to consider the solubility of hydrogen in the beer (probably quite high -- it's a tiny little molecule compared to O2), and potential dissolved hydrogen / pH effects.

Given that wort is mildly acidic, you'd probably want fairly inert electrodes (Stainless or platinum) to prevent corrosion of the electrodes and resulting metal ions in the beer. I'm not ready to try this out, but it is an interesting thought experiment.

 

[conpewter]

If it would work in beer, not only would you get oxygen, but you'd also decrease the amount of water and increase your specific gravity.

After some rudementary research I've found that

1.9 mg/L is the maximum solubility of Hydrogen at 0 degrees C

14.6 mg/L is maximum solubility of Oxygen at 0 degrees C

So I wouldn't worry about having too much hydrogen in your beer

Thus if I can reduce the amount of water in my beer and keep the sugars. I'll just bring the mash water up to boiling to sanitize and denature the enzymes, put in some hop oil and electrocute it till I have the SG I want, (Guinness guys voice) Brilliant!

Would be an interesting way to do it... though a bottle of O2 is probably easier.

 

[dlauver]

While electrolysis would generate molecular oxygen (O2) it also generates reactive oxygen species (hydrogen peroxide, H2O2; superoxide anion, O2-; etc.). These molecules quickly react with proteins and lipids (including those in cells) causing damage and loss of function.

Generating excessive amounts of reactive oxygen species would almost certainly overwhelm the yeast's own antioxidant mechanisms and severely damage cell membranes and proteins, most likely leading to cell death.

Additionally, reactive oxygen species (those found naturally) are also what are responsible for oxidized beer. Molecular oxygen is fairly inert.

 

[conpewter]

Ohhhh hmm... bad idea then... I'll stick to my oxygen bottle and stone then.

 

[david_42]

On the sub, we called the O2 generator, The Bomb. We weren't afraid of the reactor or the warheads, but The Bomb killed people.

 

[avalon]

You would need to use corrosion resistant anode, titanium coated with should do well. Or you can use sacrificial anode from non toxic metal such as pure magnesium (without aluminum) or iron which could also supply needed minerals to yeast. Not only oxygen but also hydrogen is beneficial. You would need to keep in check ph.