Advice to future home brewer

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RM-MN said:
You went the expensive route if you had to spend $60 to go all grain. I added a pair of paint strainer bags and I was ready had I been willing to accept somebody else crushing the grain. I wanted complete control so I added a cheap grain mill (about $20) and made my first batch, only a 2 1/2 gallon size because I didn't want to go bigger until I knew it would work. There isn't any reason I couldn't have continued with that but once I knew it worked well, I "had" to upgrade to a larger pot to do the full volume boil for a 5 gallon batch.

Search out "brew in a bag" or "BIAB on this forum to see how I went all grain.
Click to expand...

See, there ya go. Now why would anyone believe AG is Way more expensive than extract? Or so much more "complicated" than extract.
 
Here is my advice
Buy this here
http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-4534259-10872943?url=http%3A//www.groupon.com/new-york/deals/gx-midwest-hydroponic-new-york%3Futm_source%3Dfeedburner%26utm_medium%3Dfeed%26utm_campaign%3DFeed%253A+grouponnew-york+%2528Groupon+New+York%2529
a 9 gallon kettle
make beer
enjoy another kit using the $25 gift card included in the groupon

ignore all of those all grain people, i do all grain, but start with this kit, you will get several items you will be able to reuse as well

I highly suggest the autumn ale for your first brew as well, but that is if you like that style
 
Swank2323 said:
So let's say I go for the starter kit route for now what is some opinions on a good kit. We have pretty much crossed off the Mr. Beer kits. If I choose to build my own starter kit what kinds of things will I need to buy for the kit. I'll even take a good book or site that explains these things. Sorry for being a noob and asking for so much but I really don't know what I need otherwise I would google it myself.
Click to expand...

Have you decided all-grain or extract?

For all grain:

A big pot to heat water in and boil wort. This can be fancy as a stainless steel kettle with a tri-clad bottom, a site glass, ball valve and thermometer. Or an aluminum pot. Either way, I recommend at least 9.5 gallons. You'll need a digital thermometer to check the temperature. You'll need a source to heat the liquid in the pot. You can possibly get away with this on your gas stove, you can get a propane burner for $40-$50. After heating your strike water, you'll pour it into a Mash tun. You can piece this together, get one already built or you can do "brew in a bag" biab. You'll need a spoon to stir. I prefer metal(it won't bend). After mashing, you'll need a plastic pitcher to vorlauf into, then you'll sparge. You can get away with not heating the sparge water. Then you heat your wort to boiling. You may need a scale to weigh hops. When done boiling you'll need to chill quickly with an immersion chiller.
After that, you pour(or drain) into a bucket or carboy, let it cool down. Pitch yeast and insert drilled plug with airlock. Let it ferment and then either let it sit a few more weeks to get ready for kegging or whatever you need to do for bottling (I don't bottle either)

You'll also need PBW, Star San and various hoses.
 
Goblism said:
Here is my advice
Buy this here
http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-4534259-10872943?url=http%3A//www.groupon.com/new-york/deals/gx-midwest-hydroponic-new-york%3Futm_source%3Dfeedburner%26utm_medium%3Dfeed%26utm_campaign%3DFeed%253A+grouponnew-york+%2528Groupon+New+York%2529
a 9 gallon kettle
make beer
enjoy another kit using the $25 gift card included in the groupon

ignore all of those all grain people, i do all grain, but start with this kit, you will get several items you will be able to reuse as well

I highly suggest the autumn ale for your first brew as well, but that is if you like that style
Click to expand...

Thanks for finding this. This was the groupon I was talking about that my wife always sees. It's a pretty rockin deal
 
mlyday said:
Whats with the all the hate.

He said he hasnt brewed before, and Im only saying it may be easier to walk before you run. There is a lot of stuff going on during the mash that he wont have to worry about if he starts with extracts. Could he handle doing all grain right off, yes, im sure he could.

What I was saying is it less inimidating to a new brewer and it would allow him time to focus on more important things to learn in my opinion, like yeast health and fermentation temps.
Click to expand...

The word "complexity" is what gets me. I understand what you're saying. Regardless of which route he takes, the first time will be like a Chinese fire drill.
Adding making your own wort is not complex. You heat water to a certain temp, pour it in, wait 60 min or less.
 
jetmac said:
Don't take this advice. Everyone has something you can learn.

Start AG if you want or start with extract.
Click to expand...

jetmac this thread is not about which is better all grain or extract, this thread is about this guy getting into brewing.

The link I provided is by far the best option for a new brewer. $76 ($12 shipping) and he has 2 buckets, a kit, tubing, capper, and gift card for another kit.

You will be able to reuse nearly everything in this kit IF you go all grain, if you don't than oh well the price is right
 
Goblism said:
jetmac this thread is not about which is better all grain or extract,
Click to expand...

My point exactly.

Some are trying to steer him away from AG based on their inaccurate thinking that AG is somehow more expensive, or too complex for a beginner.

It's not. Give him advice on either but don't tell him to avoid one or the other.
avoiding AG is not going to automatically get him to stay with brewing.

I avoided extract because I see all that syrup and want to avoid it.I didn't want to add water to the syrup and watch it boil. I wanted to brew the way people started brewing. With water, grain, hops and yeast.

So did I tell him stay away from extract? No
 
HopLife said:
In the long term, to do a traditional style of brewing, you will probably end up doing 'all grain' brewing. It takes way longer, barely saves money, and requires twice the equipment, just like a real brewery...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say all grain barely saves money. If you factor in all the additional equipment I bought/made when making the switch, well..... you got me there. I can make a good all grain for about $20-25 less than a comperable kit would cost. Then again, I also recycle my yeast which is a MASSIVE help to the ingredient fund.

Definately start with extract and a good middle of the road, at worst, kit. Decide if you like the hobby and expand/grow/learn from there.
 
I didn't start brewing looking for an ROI ,I started because I want
to make good beer, and I started with all-grain because I like a challenge.
 
iron_city_ap said:
I wouldn't say all grain barely saves money. If you factor in all the additional equipment I bought/made when making the switch, well..... you got me there. .
Click to expand...


If you are selective about which costs you include or don't include it is easy to say you are saving money.

Most people ignore many of the costs. Additionally, most brewers use the price of a six pack as a comparison cost, not a case from costco. You looked online for the best price on a kettle, shouldn't you compare with the best price of beer too. I have found that I can get a case for about $23. My batches are around 4 cases. So I create a batch with a $92 value. The cost of the batch is approximately, $22 grains, $10 hops, $3 yeast, $.5 ammendments, $6 propane, $1 Eletric, $1 cleaners and sanitizers, $2 natural gas, $4 bottle caps, $.50 dextrose, $1 broken hydrometer fund, $.50 grain bag attrition, $.50 bottle attrition, $.50 hose attrition...I think $49.50 I am still ignoring tiny things such as the extra laundry if I get a couple towels dirty, or the cost of mathces. So on 4 cases of beer I have free cash flow of $41.50. Since my equipment has a total cost of around $500 I can pay it off in about 12 brews. So all grain brewing can save money... Just make sure you consider your labor as donated.
 
overdbus said:
I didn't start brewing looking for an ROI ,I started because I want
to make good beer, and I started with all-grain because I like a challenge.
Click to expand...

Dont be rude, some of us have to watch our costs. Besidses, original post explicitly stated that he can't spend much money because he has a family.
 
HopLife said:
Dont be rude, some of us have to watch our costs. Besidses, original post explicitly stated that he can't spend much money because he has a family.
Click to expand...

I wasn't being rude, just "trying" to point out that for some of us
brewing isn't about the cost, maybe that wasn't the "right" point
to make in this thread.
 
HopLife said:
If you are selective about which costs you include or don't include it is easy to say you are saving money.

Most people ignore many of the costs. Additionally, most brewers use the price of a six pack as a comparison cost, not a case from costco. You looked online for the best price on a kettle, shouldn't you compare with the best price of beer too. I have found that I can get a case for about $23. My batches are around 4 cases. So I create a batch with a $92 value. The cost of the batch is approximately, $22 grains, $10 hops, $3 yeast, $.5 ammendments, $6 propane, $1 Eletric, $1 cleaners and sanitizers, $2 natural gas, $4 bottle caps, $.50 dextrose, $1 broken hydrometer fund, $.50 grain bag attrition, $.50 bottle attrition, $.50 hose attrition...I think $49.50 I am still ignoring tiny things such as the extra laundry if I get a couple towels dirty, or the cost of mathces. So on 4 cases of beer I have free cash flow of $41.50. Since my equipment has a total cost of around $500 I can pay it off in about 12 brews. So all grain brewing can save money... Just make sure you consider your labor as donated.
Click to expand...

Costs differ too, depending on how much people comparison shop. For example.

$6 in propane? That can't be right, that's half a tank. I have done 7 6 gallon all-grain batches on one tank and still have gas in there. It costs 12 to fill. It's 2.99 for 144 caps, 4.99 for 144 O2 absorbers at my LHBS. $10 in hops? That's like 10 ounces at prices from label peelers, if you bulk buy, that's more than a pound of hops per batch. Grains are appx $1 a pound bulk. 1 large container of star san will last forever, nowhere near $1 a batch, probably closer to 25 cents. Don't need a grain bag. No attrition in bottles or hose as long as you take care of them. Matches? Wow, a box of 1,000 for 2.99.

Brew in any time other than that with which you work and you cannot count labor in the cost. If you take time off your job there is a cost of lost labor. Sunday afternoon labor doesn't count towards the cost.

For me, it's like $15-20 for grains, $2 for propane, $1 for caps, $2 for hops, 2 cents for a match, 25 cents for star-san, 4 cents for water, and unknown for electric. Washed yeast or buy a new one ever 4 batches, so $1.5 a batch average.

$21.50 for me. I can buy a 24 back of Costco beer for 20 bucks after tax. I can make a 48 pack for $21.50.

I think a lot of people brought up in this thread that it costs very little to switch between AG and Extract. For an extra 60-80 bucks you could go all grain. You could probably save $10 a batch between extract and all-grain, so 6-8 batches to break even on the all-grain thing. If you go over the 60-80 that's personal choice, not necessary. I spent much more than that but didn't need to. Just wanted to.
 
overdbus said:
I wasn't being rude, just "trying" to point out that for some of us
brewing isn't about the cost, maybe that wasn't the "right" point
to make in this thread.
Click to expand...

"Probably" "not."

For many, including myself, cost is a major consideration. Luckily, there are many different entry points into this hobby. You can start off with minimal investment, and stay there or move upward into more detailed and intensive processes. Either way, you're still making beer:cross:
 
theveganbrewer said:
Costs differ too, depending on how much people comparison shop. For example.

$6 in propane? That can't be right, that's half a tank. I have done 7 6 gallon all-grain batches on one tank and still have gas in there. It costs 12 to fill. It's 2.99 for 144 caps, 4.99 for 144 O2 absorbers at my LHBS. $10 in hops? That's like 10 ounces at prices from label peelers, if you bulk buy, that's more than a pound of hops per batch. Grains are appx $1 a pound bulk. 1 large container of star san will last forever, nowhere near $1 a batch, probably closer to 25 cents. Don't need a grain bag. No attrition in bottles or hose as long as you take care of them. Matches? Wow, a box of 1,000 for 2.99.


For me, it's like $15-20 for grains, $2 for propane, $1 for caps, $2 for hops, 2 cents for a match, 25 cents for star-san, 4 cents for water, and unknown for electric. Washed yeast or buy a new one ever 4 batches, so $1.5 a batch average.

$21.50 for me. I can buy a 24 back of Costco beer for 20 bucks after tax. I can make a 48 pack for $21.50.
Click to expand...

First, Costco beer sucks.

Second, my cost represents twice the finished product. So if I were brewing in 5 gal the cost would be half and the frequency double. Or rather, your frequency is double ie. $21.50 x 2... and maybe using the median of the range in you grain price, 17.50 instead of 15, and we are at $23 for the two cases. Your 4 case cost is still $46 dollars. $46 and $49.50 are not far off.
 
flyingfinbar said:
"Probably" "not."

For many, including myself, cost is a major consideration. Luckily, there are many different entry points into this hobby. You can start off with minimal investment, and stay there or move upward into more detailed and intensive processes. Either way, you're still making beer:cross:
Click to expand...

I meant no offence to the OP or anyone else.
 
All ya'll's input is a big help. I think I will read some books learn the whole process more. Then I will decide between extract and ag. If anything maybe buy a extract kit with as much of the things I will need also for ag and brew a few batches and add on and move to ag.
 
Whichever way you go; Enjoy the brew and welcome to HBT!:)

PS: A subscription to BYO is nice. I also read everything I come accross. It turns out that a lot of people who write books have done this before.
 
Swank2323 said:
All ya'll's input is a big help. I think I will read some books learn the whole process more. Then I will decide between extract and ag. If anything maybe buy a extract kit with as much of the things I will need also for ag and brew a few batches and add on and move to ag.
Click to expand...

Sweet, and welcome to a great hobby.
 
Got two extract batches under my belt, which are carbing up in bottles as we speak. I definitely learned some things, and took lots of notes throughout the process. I realize there are some things I need to refine, and want to tweak my equipment to adjust for it.

One thing I'd recommend is checking out this podcast from BeerSmith on Brew In A Bag (BIAB) - it seems like a great way to get into AG on the cheap, all while still being just as effective as the more traditional way of doing AG. I'm leaning towards jumping from extract to AG as my equipment will support it (Just need a bag which my wife can help me make).

Brew in a Bag (BIAB) Down Under – BeerSmith Podcast 10 | Home Brewing Beer Blog by BeerSmith
 
My advice is to be patient and enjoy yourself while you brew. It may take a few batches before you make something really good, but you'll still be elated with your first batch because you made your own beer, and that's something to be proud of.
There is an excellent free online book, howtobrew.com by John Palmer. It will guide you step by step. There is an updated print version also.
I did extract brews for a few months but got bored with it's simplicity and started adding an extra process every couple of batches. When I decided to go all grain all I did was get a free bucket from the bakery and drill tones of 1/8" holes in the bottom. Google ZapPap brewing for details. I sparged by pouring water from a kitchen pot over the grains and draining that into my kettle. All of it was done with my one turkey fryer burner. I made my own immersion chiller for very little expense, but copper was much cheaper back then.
I started brewing in 1992 and did it very cheaply for the first 6 years, just so I could have beers that I couldn't buy locally. Then I got serious about it, started paying attention to the quality of my ingredients and perfecting my technique. That will help you brew better beer more than any equipment you buy will. I enjoy the DIY aspect of brewing and have built a lot of my own equipment, that's another aspect of this addiction that can be fun.
 
corkybstewart said:
my advice is to be patient and enjoy yourself while you brew. It may take a few batches before you make something really good, but you'll still be elated with your first batch because you made your own beer, and that's something to be proud of.
There is an excellent free online book, howtobrew.com by john palmer. It will guide you step by step. There is an updated print version also.
I did extract brews for a few months but got bored with it's simplicity and started adding an extra process every couple of batches. When i decided to go all grain all i did was get a free bucket from the bakery and drill tones of 1/8" holes in the bottom. Google zappap brewing for details. I sparged by pouring water from a kitchen pot over the grains and draining that into my kettle. All of it was done with my one turkey fryer burner. I made my own immersion chiller for very little expense, but copper was much cheaper back then.
I started brewing in 1992 and did it very cheaply for the first 6 years, just so i could have beers that i couldn't buy locally. Then i got serious about it, started paying attention to the quality of my ingredients and perfecting my technique. That will help you brew better beer more than any equipment you buy will. I enjoy the diy aspect of brewing and have built a lot of my own equipment, that's another aspect of this addiction that can be fun.
Click to expand...

+1
 
jetmac said:
Some are trying to steer him away from AG based on their inaccurate thinking that AG is somehow more expensive, or too complex for a beginner.
Click to expand...

Agreed. That is the kind of advice that made me begin with extract. The "learn to dial in your process" bit is BS IMHO. Had I known then what I know now I would have done things differently. I wish I would have watched some good AG youtube videos or something. Extract just wasn't fun or enough tinkering for me. It had nothing to do with the beer.
 
My first batch was the best beer I had ever had...Because it was mine! I still look back on that Irish Stout with love.
 
Ok another question stupid and not very important yet beer clones can you do them with extracts or no
 
Yes,they have extract versions of clone kits. We're working on my SA summer ale clone atm. But the popular sites all have them.
 
Ok cool I would just like to brew my favorite beer once bc it's prob cheaper to by a 30 pack is 12 bucks lol
 
Baldy_Beer_Brewery said:
Agreed. That is the kind of advice that made me begin with extract. The "learn to dial in your process" bit is BS IMHO. Had I known then what I know now I would have done things differently. I wish I would have watched some good AG youtube videos or something. Extract just wasn't fun or enough tinkering for me. It had nothing to do with the beer.
Click to expand...

True. When I began my quest to start brewing, all the brewing guru's around me suggested I start with extract(except 1). I questioned "why". Their only answer was along the lines of "that's how I started". Well they started 15-20 years ago. With as much information that is available today I was able to pick up quite a bit from videos, podcasts, blogs and books. Plus forums like HBT. Starting with AG seemed easy. They were surprised my first batch was good. Actually I screwed up my first batch when I set my scale to ounces instead of grams when doing my salt additions. But from that point forward all the beer I've made has been very drinkable.

Point is, to tell someone to stay away from AG because it is way more expensive, or too complicated or so you can understand the process and hone your skills is preposterous. You would be denying them pure satisfaction of creating their own beer from scratch. But, on the other hand, if that person wants to start with extract, that is a great place to start.
 
I started out extract - however am switching over to AG (BIAB). I can use my same extract equipment to do BIAB batches of AG - only thing I need is a bag. Pretty nifty if you ask me.

(10 gallon pot/propane burner)
 
Swank2323 said:
I never thought about finding other brewers near me. I live in northern Kentucky across from Cincinnati which has a great restaurant with a in house brewery call Rockbottom brewery
Click to expand...

check out Paradise Brewing in Cincy. It's a friend of mine's brothers HBS and they've been at it a while. good source for info and goods. tell 'em Brian from the beer trips sent u!!!
 
My favorite beer hands down is PBR lol my dad drank in and in high school it was the cheapest and easiest beer to get ahold of so I grew to love it
 
Swank2323 said:
My favorite beer hands down is PBR lol my dad drank in and in high school it was the cheapest and easiest beer to get ahold of so I grew to love it
Click to expand...

That would be easy to clone. Just add CO2 to some tap water. :D

My favorite growing up was Old Style. But back then it was about quantity. I'm originally from a south suburb of Chicago. My dad drank PBR, Schlitz and Stroh's.

Seriously, you really need to find a new favorite beer. Something that's worth the trouble to brew.

But PBR is an American Lager. I'm sure you can find recipes for American lagers that would add more flavor and body but still keep the character of PBR.
 
Yea honestly until recently I never really have drank beer to enjoy the taste of it normally I drink whiskey or moonshine then once I got too feeling good I would drink beer and by this point it had no flavor. Now a days I have grown up and socially drink not to get tore up so I have been trying new beers anytime I get the chance.
 

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