Advice on Kveik IPA

[tennesseean_87]

I am in the mood for something hoppy, and I need it quick, and I've been interested in what I've read about these newly available yeasts. Hornindal should be here Wednesday, and I'm brewing Saturday.

Plan is something like:

1.058 OG
150F mash

68% pils
20% wheat malt
5% carapils (may drop)
5% C10
2% Aromatic
30 or 40 IBUs Magnum at 60

I'm mainly interested on input on two areas:

1) late hopping. I've got Citra, Comet, Ahtanum, Azaaca, CTZ, Medusa, and Chinook in the freezer. I'm thinking a blend of Comet and Azaaca would complement the Hornindal flavors nicely. I'm wondering about an oz of each at flameout, whirlpool, dryhop (around or after high krauzen), and keg hop. Any other thoughts on hopping (choice of hops, timing, amounts) appreciated.

2) Pitch rate: I read through some threads that relate that a tsp of slurry is plenty for a batch (I'm shooting for 5ish gallons). I'm currently planning on doing it this way, but nervous about it.

 

[Jayjay1976]

If your goal is speed, pitch more yeast and ferment it hot; from what I've read that will speed up the fermentation and boost the citrus flavors. I'll be brewing a DIPA with kveik the weekend after next and this is my plan.

 

[redllama]

Haven't done one yet with Kveik, LHBS that carries it never seems to have it in stock. From everything I have read on Milk the Funk use fruity hops and pitch warm, 85-95 as this will increase the fruity esters the yeast puts off. Personally I'd just pitch the whole package unless you were growing up a starter to keep some and then you could pitch a bit of slurry.

 

[brew703]

I brewed a NEIPA with Hornindal. I made a 1.8L starter, harvested 500mL, crashed the rest for two days, decanted then pitched the remainder of the slurry. Activity started in 30 min and was going pretty good in 3 hrs. I fermented in the 80-85 range. It was basically done in 3 days but I left it in my fermenter for a week.

Citra, Comet and Azacca would be my choice. CTZ or Magnum at 60 and go with either a FO addition or WP. I wouldn't do both. You could also add in a 10 min addition. If you WP then 5-6 oz WP would be my choice. I would maybe aim for 5-6 oz DH split evenly between the three.

I dry hopped 30 hrs after air lock activity and it was too late. Plan on dry hopping at the 12 hr mark maybe even sooner. Make sure you use a blowoff tube for the first 12-24 hrs as fermentation is pretty aggressive.

 

[Miraculix]

At least voss duplicates so fast, that the table spoon of slurry still is plenty, especially if pitched around f, 37c. Underpitching and high temperature both boost esters.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Thanks for all the replies

At least voss duplicates so fast, that the table spoon of slurry still is plenty, especially if pitched around f, 37c. Underpitching and high temperature both boost esters.

If your goal is speed, pitch more yeast and ferment it hot; from what I've read that will speed up the fermentation and boost the citrus flavors. I'll be brewing a DIPA with kveik the weekend after next and this is my plan.

Looks like we've got one for and one against the underpitch suggestion. Jayjay1976, did you still get a good esther production? I've got two empty taps, so speed is something of a consideration, but I can wait a bit for better flavor if needed.

Haven't done one yet with Kveik, LHBS that carries it never seems to have it in stock. From everything I have read on Milk the Funk use fruity hops and pitch warm, 85-95 as this will increase the fruity esters the yeast puts off. Personally I'd just pitch the whole package unless you were growing up a starter to keep some and then you could pitch a bit of slurry.

I'll be keeping some for later. If that means a small starter and splitting or just splitting the slurry to save some and pitch some. package seems to be delayed until Thursday now....

I brewed a NEIPA with Hornindal. I made a 1.8L starter, harvested 500mL, crashed the rest for two days, decanted then pitched the remainder of the slurry. Activity started in 30 min and was going pretty good in 3 hrs. I fermented in the 80-85 range. It was basically done in 3 days but I left it in my fermenter for a week.

Citra, Comet and Azacca would be my choice. CTZ or Magnum at 60 and go with either a FO addition or WP. I wouldn't do both. You could also add in a 10 min addition. If you WP then 5-6 oz WP would be my choice. I would maybe aim for 5-6 oz DH split evenly between the three.

I dry hopped 30 hrs after air lock activity and it was too late. Plan on dry hopping at the 12 hr mark maybe even sooner. Make sure you use a blowoff tube for the first 12-24 hrs as fermentation is pretty aggressive.

I may just move the FO to 10 minutes. Any extra bitterness wouldn't go amiss in my estimation. Would you add citra to every addition, or just the WP and DH?

I haven't made an IPA in a while (I'm not a huge hop-head, but I like them form time to time), and these hopping rates everyone is using these days are WAY more than I've ever used before. Comparing some of the hoppiest recipes I've done in the past (which I liked), I'm still using about 25% more hops than I have before. Where does the law of diminishing returns come in here?

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for all the replies





Looks like we've got one for and one against the underpitch suggestion. Jayjay1976, did you still get a good esther production? I've got two empty taps, so speed is something of a consideration, but I can wait a bit for better flavor if needed.



I'll be keeping some for later. If that means a small starter and splitting or just splitting the slurry to save some and pitch some. package seems to be delayed until Thursday now....



I may just move the FO to 10 minutes. Any extra bitterness wouldn't go amiss in my estimation. Would you add citra to every addition, or just the WP and DH?

I haven't made an IPA in a while (I'm not a huge hop-head, but I like them form time to time), and these hopping rates everyone is using these days are WAY more than I've ever used before. Comparing some of the hoppiest recipes I've done in the past (which I liked), I'm still using about 25% more hops than I have before. Where does the law of diminishing returns come in here?

I think he is talking about the hot fermentation temperature. Overpitching certainly does not increase ester productions. This is common sense with all yeasts, if you want further reads about kveik and its behaviour I suggest you read the fololwing blog post from the guy who brought kveik basically to the scene:

http://www.garshol.priv.no/blog/393.html

Quote: "The key to really bringing out the yeast character is to underpitch. Kveik thrives with being pitched at levels that would be dangerously low for normal yeast, and produces more flavour that way. A good rule of thumb is a teaspoon of slurry for 25 liters of wort. If you do this take care to ensure there is some oxygen in the wort. Old-style splashing by pouring the (cooled) wort from waist height is enough."

 

[brew703]

Thanks for all the replies
I would add Citra to all except the 60 min addition. I like Citra in late additions, WP and DH.
I'm not big into hoppy beers but when I brew I stay 60 IBU's or under depending on style. Commercial brews, 60 IBU is way different than on the home brew level, at least on my setup.




Looks like we've got one for and one against the underpitch suggestion. Jayjay1976, did you still get a good esther production? I've got two empty taps, so speed is something of a consideration, but I can wait a bit for better flavor if needed.



I'll be keeping some for later. If that means a small starter and splitting or just splitting the slurry to save some and pitch some. package seems to be delayed until Thursday now....



I may just move the FO to 10 minutes. Any extra bitterness wouldn't go amiss in my estimation. Would you add citra to every addition, or just the WP and DH?

I haven't made an IPA in a while (I'm not a huge hop-head, but I like them form time to time), and these hopping rates everyone is using these days are WAY more than I've ever used before. Comparing some of the hoppiest recipes I've done in the past (which I liked), I'm still using about 25% more hops than I have before. Where does the law of diminishing returns come in here?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Sounds to me like you're in a hurry so I suggested pitching a normal starter and let the hops do the talking. I, too an impatient when it comes to IPAs, seems to me the sooner I can get them bottled the more intense the hop aroma. The ridiculous speed of kveik also means I can bottle condition in less than a week vs. 2-3 weeks for normal yeast. This means I can start enjoying it sooner when the hops are still at their peak.

Of course, this is all purely academic in my case since I have two pouches of kveik in my possession but haven't had time to brew with it yet. I'm off to Frankfurt tomorrow for a week then when I get home that following weekend I'll be brewing a big IPA with voss.

 

[ccous]

Underpitch, it won’t slow down the fermentation/increase the lag time of kviek which has been mentioned. With high ferm temps you’ll get the citrus esters in spades

 

[Miraculix]

Sounds to me like you're in a hurry so I suggested pitching a normal starter and let the hops do the talking. I, too an impatient when it comes to IPAs, seems to me the sooner I can get them bottled the more intense the hop aroma. The ridiculous speed of kveik also means I can bottle condition in less than a week vs. 2-3 weeks for normal yeast. This means I can start enjoying it sooner when the hops are still at their peak.

Of course, this is all purely academic in my case since I have two pouches of kveik in my possession but haven't had time to brew with it yet. I'm off to Frankfurt tomorrow for a week then when I get home that following weekend I'll be brewing a big IPA with voss.

Actually, bottle conditioning can take longer than normal, as the yeast tends to flocc out so well (at least voss and the original Kveik I got from Norway) that less yeast is in suspension that can do the job.

With the original Kveik I even had bottles that wouldn't carb up for months, although the Voss bottles were all carbed after 3 weeks the longest.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I'm not worried about priming since I'm kegging these days anyway. I think I'll stick to the underpitch, just like I read about on the aforementioned blog and one of the larger threads here. It's just so darn different that it makes me nervous!

I'm still looking at around 8 oz late hops with 2 oz at 10, WP, DH, and keg hop. Are the DH and KH redundant? I liked throwing in some keg hops to a session beer I did a while back. After a week or two in keg the aroma really punched up.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm not worried about priming since I'm kegging these days anyway. I think I'll stick to the underpitch, just like I read about on the aforementioned blog and one of the larger threads here. It's just so darn different that it makes me nervous!

I'm still looking at around 8 oz late hops with 2 oz at 10, WP, DH, and keg hop. Are the DH and KH redundant? I liked throwing in some keg hops to a session beer I did a while back. After a week or two in keg the aroma really punched up.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I'm seeing two quotes of my posts without any comment. Is there some sort of glitch going on?

 

[Jayjay1976]

I don't agree that pitching one teaspoon of slurry into 5 gallons won't increase lag time nor the time needed to reach FG while bottle conditioning can be dreadfully slow because of reduced yeast population. You can't have it both ways. Change my mind.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm seeing two quotes of my posts without any comment. Is there some sort of glitch going on?

Yes, it wouldn't let me add text yesterday.....

 

[Miraculix]

I don't agree that pitching one teaspoon of slurry into 5 gallons won't increase lag time nor the time needed to reach FG while bottle conditioning can be dreadfully slow because of reduced yeast population. You can't have it both ways. Change my mind.

Well, you said it yourself, you never used it, so you are just making assumptions, which are false.

This yeast multiplies so fast, at the end you'll have more than enough yeast for bottle conditioning. The problem is that it flocs so well that less ends up in the bottle. The bit that ends up in the bottle sticks to the bottom, therefore increasing time for conditioning.

I pitched a teaspoon and had activity within a few hours and high kräusen after about 7. That's the lag.

Had a normal amount of slurry at the bottom of the fermenter, that's the amount.

 

[Coffeeturnal]

Actually, bottle conditioning can take longer than normal, as the yeast tends to flocc out so well (at least voss and the original Kveik I got from Norway) that less yeast is in suspension that can do the job.

With the original Kveik I even had bottles that wouldn't carb up for months, although the Voss bottles were all carbed after 3 weeks the longest.

Do you know of anything that can speed up the carbonation process with Voss? I was thinking about warming the bottles to a more "kveik-y" temperature.

I am currently experiencing that problem with a Voss NEIPA. Getting worried about flavors fading while waiting. Perhaps I'm just impatient though.

 

[Miraculix]

Do you know of anything that can speed up the carbonation process with Voss? I was thinking about warming the bottles to a more "kveik-y" temperature.

I am currently experiencing that problem with a Voss NEIPA. Getting worried about flavors fading while waiting. Perhaps I'm just impatient though.

I think bottling sooner than later, to get more yeast into the bottle, should help. Warming the bottles will surely also speed things up. Maybe next time try to agitate some yeast before bottling? I had a few bottles with a bit more yeast inside and those were basically fully carbed after a few days. I know, doesn't help you with this one, but for future batches it is something to consider.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Do you know of anything that can speed up the carbonation process with Voss? I was thinking about warming the bottles to a more "kveik-y" temperature.

I am currently experiencing that problem with a Voss NEIPA. Getting worried about flavors fading while waiting. Perhaps I'm just impatient though.

I think bottling sooner than later, to get more yeast into the bottle, should help. Warming the bottles will surely also speed things up. Maybe next time try to agitate some yeast before bottling? I had a few bottles with a bit more yeast inside and those were basically fully carbed after a few days. I know, doesn't help you with this one, but for future batches it is something to consider.

I would sprinkle a smidge of dry wine yeast in the top of each bottle before capping. I used to do this anyway just to speed conditioning.

From what I've read, these yeasts like having lots of nutrients and sugar and can be slower with low-gravity worts. Is it possible that a similar situation is mimicked by the addition of such a small amount of priming sugar?

 

[Coffeeturnal]

I would sprinkle a smidge of dry wine yeast in the top of each bottle before capping. I used to do this anyway just to speed conditioning.

From what I've read, these yeasts like having lots of nutrients and sugar and can be slower with low-gravity worts. Is it possible that a similar situation is mimicked by the addition of such a small amount of priming sugar?

I've wondered the same thing. I added a bit of nutrient at bottling in hopes of combating that.

I don't recall how much though, so maybe it wasn't enough?

 

[Miraculix]

I've wondered the same thing. I added a bit of nutrient at bottling in hopes of combating that.

I don't recall how much though, so maybe it wasn't enough?

I would never ever add nutrients when bottling. Nutrients taste awful and the chance that the yeast does not digest it all is high at this point. I guess wine yeast is OK, but it just floccs really really bad. I would just try to stir a bit of the kveik yeast from the bottom of the vessel into the bottling bucket. It floccs out in the bottle quickly enough and sticks to the bottom.

 

[Coffeeturnal]

I would never ever add nutrients when bottling. Nutrients taste awful and the chance that the yeast does not digest it all is high at this point. I guess wine yeast is OK, but it just floccs really really bad. I would just try to stir a bit of the kveik yeast from the bottom of the vessel into the bottling bucket. It floccs out in the bottle quickly enough and sticks to the bottom.

Good to know. The (undercarbed) bottles that I've opened thankfully didn't have any nutrient flavors, but I'll avoid doing that in the future.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Reading up on hop choices, I'm finding Comet tends to be pungent and Azacca a little subtle. I may keep my hops at 2 oz additions with 1 oz Azacca, .5 oz Comet, .5 oz Citra.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Once I've plugged everything in, Beersmith is giving me a pretty big IBU addition from 2 oz in the WP. I haven't played around with this in the past, what should I expect from that. It's calcing out to 96 total IBU; 38 from the 60 min addition, 28 from the 10 minute, and 28 from the whirlpool (rounded some). I may need to rethink this a little.

 

[Coffeeturnal]

Once I've plugged everything in, Beersmith is giving me a pretty big IBU addition from 2 oz in the WP. I haven't played around with this in the past, what should I expect from that. It's calcing out to 96 total IBU; 38 from the 60 min addition, 28 from the 10 minute, and 28 from the whirlpool (rounded some). I may need to rethink this a little.

What temperature for the whirlpool? I don't use beersmith, but I know that if you whirlpool at a lower temperature you will get significantly fewer IBUs

 

[tennesseean_87]

What temperature for the whirlpool? I don't use beersmith, but I know that if you whirlpool at a lower temperature you will get significantly fewer IBUs

It ended up dropping to about 140 over half an hour or so of recirc without chiller water running.

Pitched half a packet (roughly) of yeast Saturday evening. Tuesday morning it's down to 1.026. I will say the active starter of 3522 I pitched in the other beer had a much more vigorous fermentation and blow-off, but I haven't taken measurements (it is slowing down and no longer producing enough heat to keep warm on its own). I'll probably pitch dryhops this evening or tomorrow morning for half a week or so, then crash cool.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Krausen almost all gone this (Wednesday) morning, so in went the dryhops at the tail end of fermentation.

 

[tennesseean_87]

It's not quite fully carbed, but it's sure tasty already! I kegged early last week. I'm calling it a success.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Really enjoying this one a lot, and good feedback from folks at the homebrew club.

 

[Miraculix]

Really enjoying this one a lot, and good feedback from folks at the homebrew club.

I still have some bottles left of my voss IPA or pa, however one would call it, and I had one the other day. It got even better with time. Now being crystal clear and having a bit subdued hop flavour, the yeast really shines. I guess one could make a really nice ipa or pa with it by just using bittering additions only. The yeast contributes such nice flavours, actually no need for additional hop flavour.

Also the yeast flavor won't fade with time.

 

[Chur]

I'm a bit late to the party here but I just wanted to give credits to OP for posting post fermentation updates.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I've used this yeast in a hoppy amber, but didn't underpitch or use really high temperature, and it came out well.

I'm planning on brewing what I'm going to call a Session Black & White IPA--about 1.045 OG, half pils, half wheat, and a bit of cold steeped roasted wheat for color. I'll be using this yeast again for quick turnaround, and probably won't underpitch too much.

 

[greenjam]

I'm going to brew a DIPA with kveik Oslo this weekend, will try to ferment at 30°c.
Recipe:

5kg pale malt
0,5kg Munich ligth
0,5kg flaked oats
0,75kg sugar

OG 1074
ABV 7,7%
IBU 61,5
SRM 12,5

20g citra 15min
20g mosaic 15min
20g Simcoe 15min

20g citra 30min steep 85°c
20g mosaic 30min steep 85°c
20g Simcoe 30min steep 85°c

10g citra 5 days dry hop
10g mosaic 5 days dry hop
20g Simcoe 5 days dry hop

50g citra 2 days dry hop
50g mosaic 2 days dry hop
20g Simcoe 2 days dry hop

What do you think?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I made an IPA yesterday with kveik hornindal, my first time using it. It was nice just throwing it in my garage and not worrying about temp control since my ferm chamber is tied up with a pilsner. Virginia temps should hit 90 today.

 

[visitor]

I'm going to brew a DIPA with kveik Oslo this weekend, will try to ferment at 30°c.
Recipe:

5kg pale malt
0,5kg Munich ligth
0,5kg flaked oats
0,75kg sugar

OG 1074
ABV 7,7%
IBU 61,5
SRM 12,5

20g citra 15min
20g mosaic 15min
20g Simcoe 15min

20g citra 30min steep 85°c
20g mosaic 30min steep 85°c
20g Simcoe 30min steep 85°c

10g citra 5 days dry hop
10g mosaic 5 days dry hop
20g Simcoe 5 days dry hop

50g citra 2 days dry hop
50g mosaic 2 days dry hop
20g Simcoe 2 days dry hop

What do you think?

Sounds great to me and I love the metric units! I've converted my brewery to metric. Curious to hear how fast it ferments and what you think of the results.

 

[greenjam]

Sounds great to me and I love the metric units! I've converted my brewery to metric. Curious to hear how fast it ferments and what you think of the results.

The first 2 days was bubbling like crazy, then it slow down... I've done the dry hops and intend to rack Tuesday.
The marmalade smell was intense as stated
This is a starter I made with just a drop off kveik to use in the next batch
About metric... I live in Europe, Portugal...
Fg of the starter is 1.002 wowwwwwwwwww