Adding wild yeast @ secondary, and other 1st timer questions...

[CKing]

Been thinking a lot lately about my 1st sour/wild brew day, and was hoping for some feedback:

My plan would be to ferment normally with an ale yeast for 2-weeks in primary then transfer to a 5 gallon carboy in which I'd add the lacto and/or brett yeast(s).

Will this method work?

Would the wild yeast added in secondary need much head space, or can I fill it up to the neck?

Do lacto and brett go hand in hand, or would I be best to try only one of these for my 1st attempt with this method?

Can I bottle in re-usable swing tops, or should I only use regular bottles for one time use only?

 

[dantheman13]

This method will "work", and you can fill up the fermenter to the neck. Use a blow off tube for the first couple of weeks just in case, after that you can replace it with an airlock.

Keep in mind that the beer probably won't have a heavy sourness to it if you ferment with this schedule. Lactobacillus likes simple sugars generally (depending on the strain). The WLP677 lacto strain from White Labs can ferment maltose and maltotriose, so I would use that strain if you use this schedule.

Lacto and Brett compliment each other, but they can be used exclusively to one another as well. It all depends on what you are going for. Lacto will generally give you more sour flavors, while Brett gives a much wider range of flavors that depends on strain and the conditions in which you provide it. Brett can produce interesting flavors with the lactic acid produced by the Lacto. I wouldn't pitch just Lacto with this fermentation schedule, but pitching just Brett could get you a nicely funky beer (not sour).

For Lacto-only sour beers, research the various Berliner Weisse brewing methods.

Swing tops should be fine. You want to make sure the beer is done fermenting, which could take some time depending on what your recipe is. If your gravity is stable for 2 months, you are probably ok to bottle. If the beer ages for a while, which you probably will want to do with this one, I like to use champagne yeast for bottling. Mike Tonsmeier's advice of using 10% of the yeast pitching rate that you would normally use for a primary fermentation has worked well for me. It gets the beer plenty carbonated, and you have less sediment in the bottles (which is not just ugly, but can create gushers as the Brett continues to metabolize the dead champagne yeast cells).

If you are a member of the AHA, the last issue of Zymurgy had a fantastic sour brewing article aimed at beginners by Mike Tonsmeier (The Mad Fermentationist blog), who is soon releasing a new book on sour brewing, "American Sour Beers".

 

[dantheman13]

Instead of using separate strains at different times, you could also pitch a sour blend like WY3278, or try one of the new blends from East Coast Yeast (ECY01). They don't ship during summer, and the stuff sells out fast... you have to watch this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/ecy-love2brew-com-right-now-386747/

 

[CKing]

My reasoning for pitching into secondary is to keep the primary "clean" from wild yeast contact. The secondary used would then strictly be for wild/sour beers.
Always been a huge fan of Orval, maybe I'll try a brett only beer for my first go.

 

[medicalneedles]

@CKing congrats on your first Sour - I've got my first intentional sour in secondary right now, and I did the same thing with Brett bruxx. Added to secondary at Sp.Grav 1.028, then after 2 weeks I added Pedio pack and lacto vial, the flavor is just now starting to clean up into a funky slightly sour finish 1 mo after the bacteria addition. Gravity is down to 1.018 and slowing. I'll post if I get a good pellicle going. Tried to clone Biere De Mars from New Belgium with the Brett funk and then went deep into sourland instead


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[medicalneedles]

My Pellicle after 7 mo.
Tastes great now but going to let it go for another month I think...


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