adding bugs to finished carbed beer

[Grod1]

So i have a 60L keg that is filled with a cali common. Not a bad beer but i have had it soured in the best and i like it much more.
I wont have time to deal with it for a while so I de gassed it, opened it up with a sanci tap and poured in a Wyeast Golden Flanders packet.
sitting in the warmest room in the house right now.
Anyone think in 4- 6 months it will be a nice sour beer? anyone have any comments at all about this?

 

[Pappers_]

Interesting. Will it be able to off-gas or will the yeast be working under pressure? Sorry, I don't know what a sanci tap is.

 

[Grod1]

A sanke* tap is a regular commercial tap. Its under pressure but i can engage it and fit an airlock on the liquid out line if anyone thinks it would be beneficial.

 

[Grod1]

anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

 

[bigdawg86]

I think the problem is without a spunding valve or often purging the pressure you may end up with a grossly overcarbed beer from the fermentation.

 

[chris000]

Some Lactobacillacea will have different metabolic pathways depending on the environment (e.g. aerob vs anaerob) resulting in many hundreds of different metabolites. One could speculate that a high pressure fermentation might have some impact as well.
So, without knowing what bug you are taking about in the first place, it is kind of hard to predict what a carbonated beer in the warmest room in your house is going to taste in half a year.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I must be missing something.

Wyeast Golden Flanders is a strain of Saccharomyces, right? (Wyeast lists the attenuation at 74-78%.) Wouldn't you expect it not to ferment any/much further?

Also Lactobacilli are off the table because the beer is hopped, yes?

So I'd expect you'll just have the same beer except flat and possibly oxidized.

If you wanted to add Brett, that's another story. You'd get funk but not sourness. Using an airlock would be safest.

 

[Grod1]

****, after checking the website it seems to be bug free. that was a waste of 8 bucks i figured that a flanders ale pack would be a mix of yeast and bacteria. i will add the Belgian sour mix to it and add an airlock. Thanks for catching that i would have given it 3 months and then would have been mad that nothing happened at all.

 

[Grod1]

okay, so i finally had some free time to rack a sour so i banked yeast in 8 oz Poland spring bottles and used one to pitch to this clean 60L keg. the yeast cake is made out of 2:1 ratio of bootleg biology's pediococus + winter solare (1:1)+ omega labs "all of the bretts" this beer had hilfarmstead's florence dregs continuously pitched to it as well.
it all went down with 7 oz of sugar in the form of cranberry juice cocktail. I hope this starts to get its sour on.
i would love to hear anyones thoughts on this. i will let you guys know how it taste in 3-4 months

 

[Calder]

I suspect you will see very little change in 3 months. 18 months maybe.

What hops do you have in there. Lacto doesn't work with hops, I think Pedio has the same problem. If Pedio works, it will take a lot longer than 3 months. The Brett may get to work on it, but slowly, and may possibly show something within the 3 months you are after, but will not be much.

 

[Nebraskan]

I saw the title and started laughing. Bugs... Thought I, cockroaches.. mayhaps crickets or some meal worms??!! Adding cranberry juice cocktail is not what ML bacteria need, in fact, they can do strange things with sugars. Pediococus is a strange thing to think about adding to anything as well. Of course in wine making it and Brett are things to avoid at all costs.

May I suggest adding a bit of lactic acid or even some phosphoric acid to your batch if you want more acid? Your beer, (I think it's beer) but be careful what you brew up that it doesn't have botulism in it as well.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I would definitely put an airlock on it... mainly to release pressure, but also because microaeration may be beneficial.

As Calder suggested, Pedio is inhibited by hops, so depending on much much IBU you have it may take quite a long time for them to work.

Might want to consider adding maltodextrin as a food source for Brett and Pedio.

Adding cranberry juice cocktail is not what ML bacteria need, in fact, they can do strange things with sugars. Pediococus is a strange thing to think about adding to anything as well.

Pedio is commonly used in mixed-fermentation sour beers because of its ability to produce lactic acid in room-temperature beer with hops (although less hops is better). I see no reason why there would be any sort of problem with fruit sugar addition. From my understanding the enzymatic process used by Brett breaks down starches and polysaccharides extracellularly, so simple sugars are available to all microbes in the beer regardless.
If you have contradictory information could you please elaborate?

Cheers

 

[Grod1]

3 months is plenty of time for pedi to start its thang. pedio can also handle a bit of hops. from my best memory there is about 20 ibus in the clean beer i can check the hop schedule Tuesday but its not a hoppy beer .I have brews over 20IBUs that are plenty sour.
the original beer also finished around 4 plato so there is plenty of maltodextrin in there. But i would glady add some next time i get to my LHBS.

The airlock will go back on.

 

[Nebraskan]

Forgive me, it is the "winemaker" coming out. It is just that things like Pediococcus, Brett and the like are things we have avoided at the winery at all costs, even to the actual destroying wine barrels that had wine in them that had Brett influence their flavor and aroma. When I referred to ML and cranberry juice cocktail, it is even a mixed consensus in major player in suppliers to wineries about the addition of Malolactic Bacteria to wines that have residual sugars, as the main argument against that was the ML would do odd flavor profiles in the wine if it had a chance to work on the sugars. Now there is newer suggestions that say that ML should be co-innoculated with the yeast at the very onset and temps controlled. (ML strains sold to wineries can be killed off in the 90+ F degree range if the fermentation gets that high... it can, and does. Ref: http://www.scottlab.com/product-346.aspx

But, this is beer, without any Malic Acid needed to be converted, and things are quite a bit different I am finding out. I am not sure how much issue would be in adding certain microbes to beers in regards to getting something in there that might grow into something bad like botulism, or other....

 

[RPh_Guy]

The original beer also finished around 4 plato so there is plenty of maltodextrin in there. But i would gladly add some next time i get to my LHBS.

If you think your recipe had plenty of munchies left over, go ahead and forget the extra maltodextrin if you want to avoid disturbing it.
Good luck, hope it turns out great!

 

[Grod1]

i have high hopes... the culture i just added is kick ass.The most money spent was on the first pack of yeast i bought that i didn't realize was only sacc. Total i spent like $15 since i got the beer for free. I will certainly bump this in 3-4 months when i take the first taste. Sure it might need another half a year after that but 3-4 months gives you a pretty clear view of what will become.