Adding blackberries to the brew?

[MrCat]

Hey folks,

It's autumnal out there and the blackberries are out round here. I'm wondering about adding them to a brew. No idea how tho

My questions are how and when you would add your fruit? Would you prepare it somehow first or just chuck it in

And would you have any suggestions for the most suitable kits to add fruit to? I'm thinking a larger as most ales have a much more prevalent flavour of their own although maybe the right fruit might compliment that?

Any hints most welcome! Especially blackberry specific ones.
Cheers

 

[svenness]

I've never added fruit to a "clean" beer before but have with sours. I'm actually adding blackberries for this first time this week to a year old flander's red. I'm going to be adding thawed and crushed frozen store-bought blackberries at 1.5llbs/gallon.

You want to add fruit after primary fermentation has ended since you'll blow off a lot of the fruit flavor during active fermentation. Refermentation will happen after you add the extra sugars in the fruit.

Since you are adding it to a clean beer you won't want to use fresh blackberries directly as they will have wild yeasts and bacteria on them. Extracts, concentrates and blackberry juice are all options to get blackberry flavor. Good luck!

 

[dmtaylor]

I have not used blackberries before, but I have used cherries with good success. Process with these or any fruits should be very similar / identical.

I agree with sven's points above. 1 to 1.5 lb/gallon seems a good amount. If you use less than that, you'll get color and tartness but probably not enough flavor. Add them after primary fermentation is nearly complete, when the alcohol that is already present in your beer will help keep contamination at bay, while the fruit aromas will not be lost as much with the CO2 bubbles.

I would either freeze them or mush them up before adding to break all the cell walls -- if you add them whole you won't get as much character out of them. Then add 1 crushed Campden tablet per pound of fruit, then let that sit for a day or two before adding to your beer. The Campden (or sulfite) will kill some of the weakest wild beasts and help to prevent contamination of the beer in addition to the alcohol. After that, fermentation will pick up again. Give it plenty of time to finish -- might take an extra couple of weeks before it is done.

Any fruit will add a ton of tartness, especially blackberries. So keep it in mind -- this is going to be a quite sour beer, not at all sweet unless you do something to balance that out. You might want to add about 3/4 pound lactose per 5 gallons to take the tart edge off. It will also dry out the beer anyway, so again, lactose (unfermentable sugar) will help bring the final gravity up where you probably want it to be.

As for beer styles, pretty much any style will work great with blackberries. I would avoid hoppy styles, but other than that, you could do anything ranging from blonde ale to Irish red to the deepest darkest stout -- it's all good!!

 

[ten80]

MrCat is asking about adding fruit that he can pick, so lets skip talk about extracts and processed fruit.

There are a couple ways you can add the fruit and reduce the likelihood of turning your beer into a sour. This is what I have done with berries, rhubarb, and plums:

First, give the berries a couple rinses in some cold water to remove dust and any loose particles. Pick out any moldy or over-ripe berries and leaves or stems that float to the top.

Then, put the berries in a freezer zip-lock with a little bit of StarSan (diluted) and roll them around gently. Just enough StarSan solution to wet all of the berries. Drain off any excess solution and freeze the berries. This process will "sanitize" the outside of the berries to some extent and kills or removes most of the bacteria on the surface.

Lastly, pull the berries out of the freezer and let warm to room temperature, then pitch in the primary fermenter when the fermentation is about 2/3 to 3/4 done. Pitching on moderately active yeast will reduce the odds that bacteria from the berries will take over the beer.

As for StarSan in your beer; the small amount of diluted StarSan will be diluted even further in the much larger volume of beer. Additionally, the phosphate-based acids in StarSan will be consumed by yeast (phosphorus uptake), so there is no health hazard to the yeast (or the drinker), nor is there a substantial change in beer pH. This is according to manufacturer, 5 Star Chemicals.

An alternative method to using StarSan would be to heat-pasturize your fruit prior to adding it to the fermenter near the end of primary fermentation. Heat the fruit in a sauce pan to approximately 180F for a minute or so, then cool and add the resulting puree. Heating may cause the formation of pectins, so you'll have to see if pectinase enzyme is necessary to reduce haze in the beer. Heat can also strip some of the flavor volatiles from the fruit.

I prefer the StarSan and freeze method as it has resulted in some very clean, shelf-stable fruit beers.

 

[ten80]

I agree with what dmtaylor said above about Campden tablets as well, but prefer not to add sulfites to my beers. I'll add that if you put in TOO FEW blackberries, all you get is a washed-out flavor and color. That is worse than adding no berries at all. 1-2 lb/gallon seems right.

Good, ripe blackberries shouldn't be super sour, so you may just get some tartness from the tannins in the fruit. Taste them before adding to your beer or add a proportional amount of the mushed/frozen berry must to a glass of a neutral beer (e.g., blonde ale) to see what the flavor contributions will be.

 

[dmtaylor]

Egad.... I can't say I'd agree with using StarSan as a sanitation method! Maybe it works but that just seems very wrong to me. Have you ever tasted the stuff? Blecch! Perhaps Campden is not much better in flavor, but people have been using Campden (sulfite) for a very very long time. Personally I don't like to use it either. If you wanted to skip it, then give your blackberries a hard freeze and the crystallization in the freezer will hopefully kill many/most of the wild beasts that could otherwise contaminate your beer.

 

[1977Brewer]

Egad.... I can't say I'd agree with using StarSan as a sanitation method! Maybe it works but that just seems very wrong to me. Have you ever tasted the stuff? Blecch! Perhaps Campden is not much better in flavor, but people have been using Campden (sulfite) for a very very long time. Personally I don't like to use it either. If you wanted to skip it, then give your blackberries a hard freeze and the crystallization in the freezer will hopefully kill many/most of the wild beasts that could otherwise contaminate your beer.

Freezing doesn't come close to killing enough micro organisms. star San is no rinse, and yes, I've tasted it. It tastes like water to me. Should be a perfectly safe and flavor neutral way to sanitize the fruit.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I'd go with 100 proof vodka and dump the whole lot in.ipe:

 

[MrCat]

Wow thanks folks! ten80 I'm talking exactly that, fruit I can just pick and sling in and thanks dmtaylor for the beer styles
And thanks everyone else too... I'll let you know how it works out

 

[CJ-3]

I added raspberry and blackberry in secondary to a wheat beer.

Froze them ahead of time to break the cell walls then pitched them into a blender with some vodka. Pulsed it a few times to turn it all into a paste.

Turned out very good and not as sweet as Leine's Berry Weis.

 

[MrCat]

Then, put the berries in a freezer zip-lock with a little bit of StarSan (diluted) and roll them around gently. Just enough StarSan solution to wet all of the berries

I don't have any StarSan, but I do have some "Brew Safe No Rinse Cleaner Sanitiser", will that be ok? I'm not entirely keen on the use of sanitiser so I might wing it

 

[dmtaylor]

I don't have any StarSan, but I do have some "Brew Safe No Rinse Cleaner Sanitiser", will that be ok? I'm not entirely keen on the use of sanitiser so I might wing it

Don't do it. StarSan is unique and it's not a good idea to begin with IMO.

 

[m00ps]

I don't have any StarSan, but I do have some "Brew Safe No Rinse Cleaner Sanitiser", will that be ok? I'm not entirely keen on the use of sanitiser so I might wing it

That looks like a simialr product to starsan. I woudl dunk the berries in that before putting into the beer.

YOud better get used to the idea of sanitizing because you are not making good beer without it. Realize that sanitizing vs sterilizing are two different things

 

[MrCat]

Realize that sanitizing vs sterilizing are two different things

Mmmmm interesting! Slightly OT but what's the difference between sanitising and sterilising?

 

[ten80]

That looks like a simialr product to starsan. I woudl dunk the berries in that before putting into the beer.

YOud better get used to the idea of sanitizing because you are not making good beer without it. Realize that sanitizing vs sterilizing are two different things

I'd not use any sanitizer other than StarSan on fruit UNLESS you are absolutely certain that the sanitizer can be broken down and consumed by yeast. StarSan is an acidic sanitizer and doesn't contain any toxic chemicals (e.g., iodine), and it is proven safe for human consumption and doesn't harm yeast health when diluted.

Sanitizing is making an object "clean," with a reduced bacterial count (e.g., washing a carboy then applying a sanitizer). For example, a sanitized fermentor or sanitized fruit will have an acceptable bacterial count that yeast can overcome.

Sterilizing is making an object "sterile," wherein there are no viable populations of micro-organisms. This can only truly be accomplished with an autoclave (steam under pressure), extreme temperatures, or toxic chemicals. Not something that most homebrewers aspire to achieve.

 

[MrCat]

Thanks ten80, I just soak all my kit in VWP as soon as it's empty and ready to clean, then rinse the hell out of it. I think as far as my fruit is concerned I'll be looking into some StarSan, or I might just wing it and see ... I'll either come back happy or with tail between legs preaching sanitisation. Some mixed opinions here but with my experience thus far everyone has always preached cleanliness above all else when it comes to good brewing, 'you can't get clean enough'!

 

[ten80]

If you have the option, kegging the beer and keeping it cold can delay bacteria from taking hold and will preserve the fruit flavor for longer.

If you bottle, then keeping the bottles cold helps as well.

Give it a shot and let us know how it works out!

 

[MrCat]

I will, thanks! Picking several pounds of blackberries might take a little while!...

 

[Pkrd]

For my blackberry blonde I blanched store bought frozen berries for a minute in small batches, then mashed them up a little and put them in the secondary, racked a light version of BMs centennial blonde on top of them. Worked really well.
Interestingly Mrs Pkrd had a year old bottle on the weekend and almost all the colour had dropped out of the beer. The sediment was full of colour.

Some ideas here
https://byo.com/mead/item/2988-fruit-beer-mr-wizard

 

[MrCat]

Just to clarify, it's better to keep it pretty chilled after adding the fruit? Normally I'd keep it as close to 18/20C for another few weeks after transferring to keg/bottles with some extra sugar.

I'm thinking add the fruit, possibly some lactose and some regular brewing sugar. If I chill it right away the secondary fermentation might not work? Or would it just be really slow?

 

[pcollins]

I love this place: Ask 10 brewers a question, get 15 different answers. LOL Here's yet another answer:

I simply pasteurize any fruit that's going into secondary for my beer. Put the fruit in a large pot with a small amount of water. Puree the fruit with a hand blender/immersion blender. Heat to 180ºF and hold there for 10 minutes. Remove from heat and add to beer.

 

[Pkrd]

You need to keep it warm to ferment out the sugar in the fruit.

 

[MrCat]

You need to keep it warm to ferment out the sugar in the fruit.

That's what I would have thought, but now I'm thinking what if you chill it early and retain some of the natural fruit sugars instead of adding lactose? Does that make sense?

I've got some lactose and a Coopers Canadian Blonde kit in my amazon basket waiting for my bank ballance to look more healthy, I'm guessing that'll be a suitable kit from what folk have said.

Liking the idea of pasteurising the fruit, I'm going to have to write this down properly so I can post it up when it happens! Hopefully a good but likely not the first forum-brewed Homebrewtalk recipe

 

[Pkrd]

You have to let the yeast ferment out all the sugar, otherwise you're risking bottle bombs.

 

[Microscopist]

I've used raspberries in a non sour added to the primary on day 2 - ie once the yeast is well established. I've tried holding them at 70C for a few minutes for pasteurising but eventually gave up and just started throwing them in after a quick rinse. It's never caused me trouble ( yet ).

 

[MrCat]

You have to let the yeast ferment out all the sugar, otherwise you're risking bottle bombs.

Ahhhhh! Good point

 

[italarican]

Pasteurizing may contribute to haze, so I think people typically add peptic enzyme to the beer if they're going to heat the fruit.

I'm adding blackberries to a stout on Thursday. They're in the freezer right now, and my plan is to thaw, puree, and strain them into the secondary so I don't have to deal with the seeds when it comes to bottling time. I'll rack the beer from primary onto the blackberries. Right now I only have 3.5 pounds for 4.5 gallons of stout. I want more subtle hints rather than in your face blackberry, but some of the comments here are making me think I should up it to 4-4.5 pounds.

 

[MrCat]

Ok, I'm going to go and get on with it before asking any more haha. Loving the input and I'll share my recipe with y'all

I'm now suffering info overload.