Add more Yeast?

[ChickenBeer]

I'm making a belgain triple its OG should be around 1.081. I'm going to use the WYEAST 3522 belgain ardennes which should att: 72-76% Floc 65-85 degrees, the package and their web site says that it is best for OGs at the top end of 1.065. Below is the recipe for the partial mash and I just wanted to know if I should get another pack or maybe some dry yeast to add in? i really just dont want to make a starter.

.75 lbs oat malt
.75 lbs wyermann pale wheat
.5 lbs flaked barley
.5 lbs flaked wheat
.5 lbs flaked oats
1.5 lbs belgain pils
1 hour 152 degrees F

sparge 170 and mash out

Boil
.25 oz Saaz for 60 mins
.75 oz Saaz and 6.3 lbs Pilsen LME 15 minutes before finish
2lbs corn sugar and .5oz crushed coriander at end of boil.
Making 5 gallons

 

[COLObrewer]

Well that yeast should be good to appx 12% but you are definately gonna need more at 1.081 gravity. You can go to mrmalty http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html to calculate how much is needed. It says 3 packs btw.

Also I would not use a different yeast as it will negate the purpose of picking this yeast specifically, the dry yeast may be a faster more dominant yeast that will lend it's profile and do most of the work leaving 3522 with nothing to contribute.

 

[iceman1407]

I have the same question. I made a tripel last night and used 1 vial of white labs trappist yeast for 5 gallons. Should that be enough to get mine where I want it??

Og was 1.086 when I sealed the fermenter

iceman1407

 

[sjbeerman]

I have the same question. I made a tripel last night and used 1 vial of white labs trappist yeast for 5 gallons. Should that be enough to get mine where I want it??

Og was 1.086 when I sealed the fermenter

iceman1407

No, you should of made a starter. In fact, I always make a starter when using liquid yeast.

 

[iceman1407]

How much of a difference will I know see in my endstate from using just the liquid and not a starter?? I should still get a pretty good beer from it right?? Lesson learned for the future but hopefully not at too high a cost...

iceman1407

 

[COLObrewer]

I have the same question. I made a tripel last night and used 1 vial of white labs trappist yeast for 5 gallons. Should that be enough to get mine where I want it??

Og was 1.086 when I sealed the fermenter

iceman1407

Starter or 3 vials says mrmalty.com

 

[COLObrewer]

How much of a difference will I know see in my endstate from using just the liquid and not a starter?? I should still get a pretty good beer from it right?? Lesson learned for the future but hopefully not at too high a cost...

iceman1407

Fermentation lag time will likely be very long and you will have stressed yeast that may or may not finish fermentation. If you can, you should add two more vials ASAP.

 

[iceman1407]

Well that doesn't sound good at all!!!! Guys as the lhbs said one would be good. Guess they lied to me. Do you mean lag time on the front end as in starting or what?

iceman1407

 

[COLObrewer]

Well that doesn't sound good at all!!!! Guys as the lhbs said one would be good. Guess they lied to me. Do you mean lag time on the front end as in starting or what?

iceman1407

Yes, long time to start, you can add two more vials or get one vial and make a quick starter and add that, it's not too late. The problem is that your yeasties are now trying to build a few billion more friends to tackle the task at hand whilst also trying to ferment a high gravity beer at the same time, hopefully you aerated the wort very well.

 

[iceman1407]

Yes I am starting to realize the lag in starting. I see no real activity and I've heard these ferment violently.

I aerated it very well by stiring vigorously and then even shaking the fermented to aerate it further.

So I need more yeast?? Another vial or two? You say it is not to late, what kind of window are we looking at and would it work without or do I need more? I still have some dryed yeast but have heard that would be a bad idea to mix with the trappist yeast

iceman1407

 

[ChickenBeer]

First, Thanks! for the great links. Second, looks like my cheap but will be making a starter again. lol So easy but it always adds more time to the brew. I have never understood why the starter helps boost all the yeast growth where just pitching in the wort doesnt. Is it because the starter makes growth of the yeast faster, instead of just pitching it in the wort it has to grow and ferment at the same time?

 

[Yooper]

First, Thanks! for the great links. Second, looks like my cheap but will be making a starter again. lol So easy but it always adds more time to the brew. I have never understood why the starter helps boost all the yeast growth where just pitching in the wort doesnt. Is it because the starter makes growth of the yeast faster, instead of just pitching it in the wort it has to grow and ferment at the same time?

No. The yeast must reproduce before beginning fermentation. If you start with 75 billion cells, but the optimum number is 300 billion cells, the yeast will reproduce but will be pretty stressed by the time they get around to fermentation. This causes off flavors and may cause an issue getting them to finish. The short explanation is that stressed yeast just doesn't taste very good, and may not finish up the fermentation.

Pitching the proper amount of yeast and maintaining the proper fermentation temperature is the single best thing you can do to take care of your yeast and produce a much better tasting beer.

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . .So I need more yeast?? Another vial or two? You say it is not to late, what kind of window are we looking at and would it work without or do I need more?

A few days if your seal is good

I still have some dryed yeast but have heard that would be a bad idea to mix with the trappist yeast . . . .

Not so much a bad idea, more like fixing a steel bridge with wood, it may work for a little while and be acceptable but in time you'll be asking yourself why. Ultimately you'll be drinking beer that doesn't have the correct profile for the style, then you'll either make the effort to brew another correct batch or sadly not even try the style again.

As to some of your other questions, see yoopers response to the OP above, thanx yoop, as always eloquent and precise at the same time.

 

[iceman1407]

COLObrewer,

Thanks for all the help and info. So I'll head out tomorrow and grab 2 more vials of the trappist. So should I just bring them up to room temp and then just pitch like I normally would and seal her up and way her go??

Lastly and you may have answered this and I missed it but what were good primary, and secondary times and temp settings?

iceman1407

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . So should I just bring them up to room temp and then just pitch like I normally would and seal her up and way her go?? . . . .

Yes.

. . . . . Lastly and you may have answered this and I missed it but what were good primary, and secondary times and temp settings?

iceman1407

Normal tripel schedule. Do a search on this forum or study it.

 

[beergolf]

A couple of things.

3522 is great yeast, but you should have made a starter for a beer that big.

I find that pitching Belgian yeasts at a lower temp and then letting them rise is a good practice for making nice Belgian beers. I pitch at 64-65ish and then let the temp ramp up.

A trick that I have used in the past for a Belgian that incorporates sugar into the recipe is to add the sugar after the first phase of fermentation slows. Usually about 3-4 days. Just make a simple syrup with the sugar, cool it down and add it to the fermenter. That way if you are too lazy to make a starter or are doing a spur of the moment brew, the gravity of the wort is lower and basically acts like a big starter. After the yeast eats up most of the fermentable sugars, then adding more sugar wakes them up again and they go crazy.