Add boiled down concentrated wort when transferring to secondary?

[drasticdub]

Hello all!

This is my first post and I am a relatively new home brewer - I have 5 brew days under my belt and have only botched one ... so far ...

On my last brew I did not have a concrete recipe and cobbled together from various posts around the internet a clone of the Hitachino Red Rice Ale ... (basically a Belgian Golden Strong w/ a specific kind of rice)

Because I'm a noob I ended up with a small kettle's worth of extra wort ... I researched uses for it and in-the-moment decided to boil it down to a syrup, which is now literally and figuratively chilling in my fridge (about a pound-by-weight)

I've mixed a small amount into a few cocktails but otherwise don't really know what to do with it ...

Until I had the idea of adding it to the secondary fermenter when I transfer (I don't want to add additional yeast)

If I were to add some water to it, boil it and sanitize it ... could this up the ABV, flavor, etc ? Or is this a pointless and too-risky endeavor?

Any thoughts or experiences are greatly appreciated - Thanks!

 

[FromZwolle]

]

If I were to add some water to it, boil it and sanitize it ... could this up the ABV, flavor, etc ? Or is this a pointless and too-risky endeavor?

you sure can. i'll add it to the primary, otherwise you're effectively turning your secondary into a second primary.

It won't hurt anything, and indeed, if you intended on having those sugars in there for the initial brew, they will be better off added than not.

 

[drasticdub]

@FromZwolle - Cheers for that!

This was exactly my thought but have yet to add additional fermentables to a batch ...

I guess I'll heat it up, let it cool and stir it in very gently ... To your point though, I have the buckets/carboys necessary so I think I will transfer to a 'second primary' when adding ... hopefully clean up the beer and add some clarity ...

For context here is the (I think) gorgeous pink wort I got going using with the specialty Koji rice ...

 

[Elric]

@FromZwolle - Cheers for that!

This was exactly my thought but have yet to add additional fermentables to a batch ...

I guess I'll heat it up, let it cool and stir it in very gently ... To your point though, I have the buckets/carboys necessary so I think I will transfer to a 'second primary' when adding ... hopefully clean up the beer and add some clarity ...

For context here is the (I think) gorgeous pink wort I got going using with the specialty Koji rice ...

It is going to kick off more fermentation so it will cloud the beer up again, you won't really gain any clarity by transferring to a secondary vessel, just introduce oxidation and possible infection. I would Zwolles recommendation and just add it to the primary. Shouldn't be a need to stir it in either, the yeast will find the extra sugars and get to work on them, and once the yeast kick off again the beer should be mixing itself effectively enough.

 

[IslandLizard]

I would add the syrup while the fermentation is over the hill, but still going.
You need lots of active yeast to chow it down, while the alcohol has been built up already, making it a more hostile environment for the yeast to be in doing her work.

What was your OG? Target FG?

Before adding that heavy syrup, first take a hydrometer sample and taste it. Then decide.
Since you boiled it down so far, chances are there are tons of unfermentables in there, existing as caramels (pyrolyzed sugars). Taste some of that syrup too, so you know if what you're adding will make it better. Expect it to remain sweeter as it won't ferment all out due to those extra unfermentable sugars.

 

[drasticdub]

Wow - Thank you all for the responses -

OG was 1.066 .. FG is ??? ... I don't really know but would guess 1.015 would be ideal to hit the 6-ish % ABV I think this beer needs

Since you boiled it down so far, chances are there are tons of unfermentables in there, existing as caramels (pyrolyzed sugars).

@IslandLizard - This is a really interesting point and something I did not consider - I definitely do not want the beer to go too sweet as I'm hoping to capture a bit of dryness in it (ala sake) from using rice ... The syrup itself is very malty and sweet ... But there is a caramelized quality to it as well ... I brewed this 5 days ago and the fermenter is definitely in it's last throws so I guess I need to do this tomorrow or not worry about it ... Hm ... I guess I could just do another Belgian style and use this as a sort of LME/Sugar hybrid in the boil ... That might be the best use for now ...

But now I'm curious ... If I had let this boil down for much longer at a lower temp and avoided the high-temperature caramelization of the sugars, could this have been a super fermentable addition... ?

 

[IslandLizard]

But now I'm curious ... If I had let this boil down for much longer at a lower temp and avoided the high-temperature caramelization of the sugars, could this have been a super fermentable addition... ?

Yes, lower simmering/evaporation temps can surely help restrain caramelization (called kettle reactions while the wort is still quite watery). The thickness of the kettle bottom can also play a role in that.
Simmering/heating for very long times, >2-4 hours or so as they do in Barleywines, or to condense the wort making it really thick, again, causes more caramelization.

IOW, caramelization is hard to avoid unless you can reduce the temperature and/or increase the evaporation rate, effectively reducing the time it's exposed to heat. Such as by using fans, or much better, vacuum evaporation. That's how LME is made: relatively low temps and under vacuum.

 

[BlkHoneyBrew]

Hello all!

This is my first post and I am a relatively new home brewer - I have 5 brew days under my belt and have only botched one ... so far ...

On my last brew I did not have a concrete recipe and cobbled together from various posts around the internet a clone of the Hitachino Red Rice Ale ... (basically a Belgian Golden Strong w/ a specific kind of rice)

Because I'm a noob I ended up with a small kettle's worth of extra wort ... I researched uses for it and in-the-moment decided to boil it down to a syrup, which is now literally and figuratively chilling in my fridge (about a pound-by-weight)

I've mixed a small amount into a few cocktails but otherwise don't really know what to do with it ...

Until I had the idea of adding it to the secondary fermenter when I transfer (I don't want to add additional yeast)

If I were to add some water to it, boil it and sanitize it ... could this up the ABV, flavor, etc ? Or is this a pointless and too-risky endeavor?

Any thoughts or experiences are greatly appreciated - Thanks!

Im trying to clone the same for my first brew. Did you use sake yeast and would you be willing to share your recipe that you pieced together?

 

[PCABrewing]

@FromZwolle - Cheers for that!

This was exactly my thought but have yet to add additional fermentables to a batch ...

I guess I'll heat it up, let it cool and stir it in very gently ... To your point though, I have the buckets/carboys necessary so I think I will transfer to a 'second primary' when adding ... hopefully clean up the beer and add some clarity ...

For context here is the (I think) gorgeous pink wort I got going using with the specialty Koji rice ...

How small is the residual "small kettle" that you are looking to use?
Is it enough to make a separate small batch? That way you are not risking the main batch at all.

If you do add to secondary as it looks like you're going to I would prepare airlock or blow-off for a normal fermentation, not like a normal secondary. It probably won't get that vigorous but better safe than sorry.

This could be an interesting experiment, maybe even worth repeating, keep the group up to date on the results.

 

[drasticdub]

Wow! Necro thread revitalized!

Im trying to clone the same for my first brew. Did you use sake yeast and would you be willing to share your recipe that you pieced together?

So here is what I did - Spoilers, It did not come out anything like a Hitachino Red Rice - But it did come out as a pink-hued peach/bubblegum kinda Belgian ale - For one of my buddies, it is now his favorite beer and at the time was absolutely the best beer I had made - so not a total loss but nothing like what I was going for ...

I'll put my thoughts on changes/updates under the recipe ...

For 5 Gallons
8lb Belgian Pilsner
1lb Flaked Barley
4lb Red Koji Rice

Mash at 154° for 60 minutes

Boil 60 Minutes
0.5 oz Chinook @ 60 min
0.25 oz Chinook @ 15 min
0.25 oz Chinook @ 5 min

Yeast - WLP570 (Belgian Golden Ale)

OG: 1.058
FG: 1.009
ABV: 6.4%

As this was the 5th beer I ever made, I had no temp control other than environmental ... so I moved it around from the cellar to the landing in an attempt to keep some kind of order, but it basically just did what it wanted ... which probably accounts for the big stone-fruit flavors - My notes have it fermenting from 70 up to 78 ... Probably hotter actually inside the fermenter as all I had was the thermometer sticker on the outside of it ...

I think the 2 big things I would change on a rebrew (and I should do that!) would be to up the rice (I think I read somewhere that Hitachino uses koji rice as 1/4 of the grain bill - hopefully that wasnt in a dream) and change the yeast strain.

I dont know anything about sake yeast so I cant speak to that, but I was recently drinking a local Chicago brew that reminded me so much of the Red Rice profile I ran for my notebook to jot it down - When I looked it up they listed the yeast type as Bastogne - So I would absolutely give that a try.

As a new brewer trying to make clones, you can usually glean info about the beer from the brewers website - Take a look at the details on Hitachino's site and you'll see what I mean.

If you end up making this please keep us posted with how it goes.

This could be an interesting experiment, maybe even worth repeating, keep the group up to date on the results.

I was too chicken to do it and so just put it in a mason jar and used it cocktails and as a pancake topping for a while!

 

[PCABrewing]

Wow! Necro thread revitalized!

I was too chicken to do it and so just put it in a mason jar and used it cocktails and as a pancake topping for a while!

LOL, I guess I should have looked at the date on the first post! When they (threads) pop-up in the "Whats new" category.....

 

[BlkHoneyBrew]

Wow thank you for the quick detailed reply. I think I may try WLP705 along with an Ale yeast. Still gathering ingredients but I will def. keep you posted. Where were you able to find 4lbs of red koji rice?

 

[beerisyummy]

I've found adding a bit of extra boiled/caramelized wort to the primary works well and adds that certain je-ne-sais-quois ... but I've only done it in stronger, darker brews. It's SOP for my annual Christmas Ale, which is basically a gussied-up Old Ale recipe.