20 gallon SS Brewtech Infussion mash tun

[dthompson79]

I think it would work just fine small volume or not if you used their MTS heater. Though I cannot speak to this with certainty because I do not own a MTS

 

[crooow]

Anyone know at what gallon marking level the thermowell is in the 20 gallon?

Also, does it come with a plug for the recirculation port? I imagine lots of heat is lost from there.

 

[sredz]

I believe the temp probe is at about the 5 gallon mark. No plug for the recirculation port, just 1/2" male npt inside & out. I added a 90 degree elbow on the outside and wrapped it with insulated pipe tape.

 

[9Dave]

I’ve had the 10g Ss Infussion since January and have made 18 batches with it so far. Hands down it’s the worst homebrewing purchase I’ve made since I started brewing in 2008. Sorry this is so long, but I assume some people will appreciate all these details in deciding whether to buy this expensive equipment.

First, the LCD thermometer that comes with it jumps around much more than I’ve seen on other thermometers. And both that and the Temp Control readings seem completely unreliable. I have three handheld thermometers that are calibrated (glass, analog, and digital). At the end of the mash, I’d note the temp on the Ss thermometer I was using, take off the lid, and then insert one or some of my thermometers into the mash right next to the tip of the thermowell and take a reading. The LCD thermometer was different by the following degrees F from my calibrated equipment: -0.8, +2.0, +3.5, +3.5, -4.2, +6.1, and -4.9. On the Temp Control unit, I got spreads of +6.2, +8.6, -6.1, -5.3, -5.1, +1.1, -3.8, -4.2, and -5.4F. So a varying spread of 11.0F and 14.7F, respectively.

For the Temp Control unit, their advertising includes: "it can help with fine tuning your strike water temp those last few degrees" and "For a typical strike water volume (approx. 5gals), the heater will increase strike water temps by roughly 5F/hour." I was not experiencing this so I did some tests (all with the lid never removed).

I tested the system out with just water inside my house, at 65F, with the heating unit. The temp was stabilized at 133.5. I turned the heater on. Two and a half hours later the temp was at 136.5. So it rose 3 degrees in two and a half hours. And I was doing this at an even lower temp than a normal single infusion dough-in temp. In another test, after the temp stabilized at 144.5, I let the heater go until it raised the temp 5 degrees. It took six and a half hours.

Their Customer Service said: “We test in Southern California at 65-80 degree ambient temps, so your low ambient temps are definitely the crux of the issue in this case.” I had already explained that while the brew day problems I had with it were outside (winter in Zone 6b), I did these tests inside at 65F. But I waited until summer and collected some more data. I’d start my brew day early so I could let the strike water sit and test out the Temp Control unit while it was in the 70’s and 80’s outside. On one brew day, I added 160F water at my full strike volume to the MLT to preheat it. After 10 minutes, the Temp Control unit read 154.5F. I wanted it at 156F strike so I plugged in the heating unit. After 48 minutes the temperature dropped to 154.0F.

Next brew day, I added 4.35 gallons of 167F water. At 10 minutes it was stabilized at 161F. I then set the heater to 165F. 95 minutes later the strike water dropped to 159.8F.

Next brew day, I again added 4.35 gallons of 167F water. After 10 minutes it was 162.1. I then set the heater to 167. After 3 hours and 5 minutes, the temperature dropped to 160.8F. (Note that I turned it on dry before adding the water and it did get the bottom hot - a test they previously told me to try that I’ve done a couple of times to confirm it’s working.)

I tend not to use the Temp Control unit during the mash itself because of how unpredictable it is. But on one brew day at 23 minutes into a 90 minute mash, I plugged in the heater. It was 146.3F at 23 minutes (target 149F). At 60 minutes it was 145.7F. At 90 minutes it was 146.6F. So it dropped and then only rose a total of 0.3F over 67 minutes. On the brew day above when I had the heater on for over 3 hours to try and raise my strike water, I left it on through my mash. I lowered the target to 154F. 10 minutes into the mash, it was 150.6. At 60 minutes, it was 156.5. So it finally worked but it overshot by 2.5F.

In sum, I no longer have consistency and repeatability for my mashes. I’d like to switch out the thermometer to a more reliable analog thermometer but this requires ⅜” NPT, which even Ss doesn’t carry. The only ones I’ve found so far are expensive and with lots of S&H. My LHBS couldn’t find any in that size through their supplier.

There are lots of other miscellaneous issues. For example, the gasket around the false bottom started fraying after just a few uses. I cut off that fray but now it’s started fraying again in a few spots. The rubber feet pop off easily (lost one in the yard for a while). You can feel a weak spot in the design where it’s warm at the indentation around the thermowell (seems like that could have been avoided but I’m no engineer). After just 6 months, one of the LCD bars on the Temp Controller is out. And, at the end of running off when it starts sputtering, it often begins to pull through grain into the BK. I didn’t have this problem with my cooler MLT and I wonder if it’s the 5 degree sloped bottom design, which is meant to catch small grain that makes it through the false bottom. When it’s sputtering at the end, I’m guessing it creates enough force to pull many of those bits off. If anyone has thoughts on how to prevent this (other than trying to turn off the ball valve as quickly as possible), please let me know since I don’t like lots of grain bits in my BK.

 

[crooow]

I tend not to use the Temp Control unit during the mash itself because of how unpredictable it is. But on one brew day at 23 minutes into a 90 minute mash, I plugged in the heater. It was 146.3F at 23 minutes (target 149F). At 60 minutes it was 145.7F. At 90 minutes it was 146.6F. So it dropped and then only rose a total of 0.3F over 67 minutes. On the brew day above when I had the heater on for over 3 hours to try and raise my strike water, I left it on through my mash. I lowered the target to 154F. 10 minutes into the mash, it was 150.6. At 60 minutes, it was 156.5. So it finally worked but it overshot by 2.5F.

In sum, I no longer have consistency and repeatability for my mashes. I’d like to switch out the thermometer to a more reliable analog thermometer but this requires ⅜” NPT, which even Ss doesn’t carry. The only ones I’ve found so far are expensive and with lots of S&H. My LHBS couldn’t find any in that size through their supplier.

There are lots of other miscellaneous issues. For example, the gasket around the false bottom started fraying after just a few uses. I cut off that fray but now it’s started fraying again in a few spots. The rubber feet pop off easily (lost one in the yard for a while). You can feel a weak spot in the design where it’s warm at the indentation around the thermowell (seems like that could have been avoided but I’m no engineer). After just 6 months, one of the LCD bars on the Temp Controller is out. And, at the end of running off when it starts sputtering, it often begins to pull through grain into the BK. I didn’t have this problem with my cooler MLT and I wonder if it’s the 5 degree sloped bottom design, which is meant to catch small grain that makes it through the false bottom. When it’s sputtering at the end, I’m guessing it creates enough force to pull many of those bits off. If anyone has thoughts on how to prevent this (other than trying to turn off the ball valve as quickly as possible), please let me know since I don’t like lots of grain bits in my BK.

This is really disappointing to hear. Are the mash fluctuation temperatures you report from the brewtech thermometer or from one of your calibrated thermometers?

 

[9Dave]

Good question, the mash temps from when I'm trying to heat are from the Ss Temp Control unit, not my calibrated thermometers. So it does add a variable since those temperatures are unreliable. I assume the Infussion holds temperatures reasonably well. But I don't know that since both their thermometer units are unreliable and vary (the LCD one that comes with it and the one on the Temp Control unit). But even with that unpredictability, I've still seen plenty of indications that the heater does not warm the strike water or mash as advertised. Every now and then the mash will get a bump from it, but it's behavior (even when I'd reference with my calibrated thermometers) is too unreliable. I'm better off just adjusting with hot or cold water.

 

[Ianflean]

I've got the 20 gallon and didn't bother with the heater as mine holds the temp pretty much perfectly for 60/75 minutes.

I can echo the problem with the feet though. After a couple of moves they've all vanished. Bad flaw.
Also with the grain... I had problems with lots of grain coming through the false bottom. The customer service guys suggested re-circulating the mash for the last 10 mins of the mash and that has worked clearing it up, however at the end of the sparge (fly sparge) when the last bit of liquid comes through, it's always full of grain.

Any ideas how to stop this?

Cheers!

 

[dthompson79]

I have the same experience with my 20 G too much grain getting through even with a lengthy vorlauf. The false bottom is just ill designed. One thing that a fellow brewer discovered and I plan on implementing soon is Blichmanns 20 gallon false bottom fits perfectly. It even allow you to use the same gasket. I know this is an additional expense most won't want to spend but Blichmanns false bottom in my opinion is the best in the market. It will solve the other issue i have with their recirculation manifold from getting clogged with grain. Otherwise I love this thing. Sturdy, big, and great eff. Holds temps great. Can't speak to the MTS but it didn't sound like a good idea to me in the first place. not surprised people are having lackluster results.

edit: the feet do suck if you move it at all. The should've provided post to thread those into. additional cost but this thing runs $550.00. I see these issues as growing pains for a great company that is growing its product line perhaps a little too fast. You are bound to have design flaws.

 

[brewbama]

Though I do not have this MLT, I solved a similar problem of grain slipping past my screen in my MLT by using a Brew Bag filter. It works like a charm : no grain bits what so ever.

 

[9Dave]

dthompson79, please keep us posted on whether the Blichmann false bottom fixes it.

When I've cleaned the MLT in place by scooping out the grain, I've noticed that after I lift out the false bottom, you'll see small bits of grain on the sloped bottom, which I'm pretty sure their materials say it's designed to do. When you add water to clean and drain it, you can watch how some stuff will hang around until it's nearly empty and then the last thin layer of water sloshing around can jar them loose, which I think is the problem. So even longer recircs at the beginning as Ianflean noted may not solve that since I think it'll just help with the grain bed and not what's below on the slope. If the Blichmann let's even a little bit through initially before the bed settles, then that may not solve it. I guess a brew bag may solve it, but part of the reason I bought this was to reduce the amount of synthetic materials on the hot side. I think the key is to either prevent the small bits from getting through the false bottom and onto the slope (maybe Brew Bag or Blichmann) or to find a way to jar them loose during the vorlauf so the slope is cleared before run off. Perhaps speeding up the vorlauf would help, but then you could risk a stuck sparge. Hmmm....

 

[RevKev]

dthompson79, please keep us posted on whether the Blichmann false bottom fixes it.

When I've cleaned the MLT in place by scooping out the grain, I've noticed that after I lift out the false bottom, you'll see small bits of grain on the sloped bottom, which I'm pretty sure their materials say it's designed to do. When you add water to clean and drain it, you can watch how some stuff will hang around until it's nearly empty and then the last thin layer of water sloshing around can jar them loose, which I think is the problem. So even longer recircs at the beginning as Ianflean noted may not solve that since I think it'll just help with the grain bed and not what's below on the slope. If the Blichmann let's even a little bit through initially before the bed settles, then that may not solve it. I guess a brew bag may solve it, but part of the reason I bought this was to reduce the amount of synthetic materials on the hot side. I think the key is to either prevent the small bits from getting through the false bottom and onto the slope (maybe Brew Bag or Blichmann) or to find a way to jar them loose during the vorlauf so the slope is cleared before run off. Perhaps speeding up the vorlauf would help, but then you could risk a stuck sparge. Hmmm....

Just tossing out another possibility I don't own this but would like to just gotta justify the cost as I'm set up for BIAB and would need a HLT also..

But back to it would widening your grain mill and changing your crush to a little less fine help with that, at least without sacrificing efficiency? Without pictures I'm assuming it's extremely fine and abnormal particles that you're talking about.

 

[dthompson79]

Though I haven't tested this, and it will likely be a month or 2 before I can. I spoke at length with the gentleman that did and he claimed it was a night and day difference. I suppose with blichmanns superior false bottom design he may have been able to vorlauf faster in conjunction that less grain made it through. He mentioned when fly sparging the last bit of wort that comes through and carries grain with it on the stock false bottom was remedied. I also crush coarse, about a .045 on a monster 3 roller, and I still see grain in my sight glass for 10-15 minutes into a vorlauf. Including at the end of a fly sparge

 

[Spartan1979]

I find this thread to be depressing. I've been using the same Igloo cooler for 20+ years and I loved the idea of replacing it with stainless. But this thread is convincing me to not buy one. Sigh!

 

[dthompson79]

Let em work the kinks out. I personally love mine even with the flaws. The vessel is sound. false bottom is the Achille's heel IMO. For single infusion with no MTSS mine holds temps anywhere from .5-.1 degrees of stabilized mash in temp. That is from low 30's to 90's ambient temperature range too. Feet are just an annoyance, but I don't move mine often either.

 

[dmcman73]

I find this thread to be depressing. I've been using the same Igloo cooler for 20+ years and I loved the idea of replacing it with stainless. But this thread is convincing me to not buy one. Sigh!

Or build one yourself like I did: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=528153

 

[dthompson79]

You can tell that thing was a labor of love. You made it look fantastic. Great job!!!

 

[dmcman73]

You can tell that thing was a labor of love. You made it look fantastic. Great job!!!

Thanks dthompson79!

 

[9Dave]

Great to hear someone is seeing the grain issue resolved with a different false bottom. Now I'll just have to decide whether to put more money into this.

Spartan1979, you might also want to look into the Chapman stainless MLT. I was heavily thinking about that one but went with the Ss because of the heating option (which I don't recommend) and because there was a forum where people were going back and forth on whether it was bad the Chapman uses 201 stainless instead of 304. I don't know enough about that so I decided not to risk it. But I asked John Palmer about this at the Brewing Network party at NHC in Baltimore this year and, while he wasn't familiar with the product, he talked about the differences between 201 vs. 304 (similar stuff to what I've seen posted), and then concluded that it was no big deal and it should be just fine. I was also attracted to the digital thermometer on the Ss but of course I now regret that too. If I could do it all over again I'd still get a stainless mash tun but I'd get the Chapman. Of course, I haven't used it and can't vouch for it but it'd be cheaper, it'd have an analog thermometer, and it should have the grain issue since it doesn't use a slope bottom. So in theory it'd remedy all my concerns. And I like how the lid clamps down.

 

[woo_pig]

I find this thread to be depressing. I've been using the same Igloo cooler for 20+ years and I loved the idea of replacing it with stainless. But this thread is convincing me to not buy one. Sigh!

I am in the same boat. I saved up for this and now I think I will just go with a 3 vessel keggel set up . It could be a step in the right direction.

 

[Spartan1979]

Great to hear someone is seeing the grain issue resolved with a different false bottom. Now I'll just have to decide whether to put more money into this.

Spartan1979, you might also want to look into the Chapman stainless MLT. I was heavily thinking about that one but went with the Ss because of the heating option (which I don't recommend) and because there was a forum where people were going back and forth on whether it was bad the Chapman uses 201 stainless instead of 304. I don't know enough about that so I decided not to risk it. But I asked John Palmer about this at the Brewing Network party at NHC in Baltimore this year and, while he wasn't familiar with the product, he talked about the differences between 201 vs. 304 (similar stuff to what I've seen posted), and then concluded that it was no big deal and it should be just fine. I was also attracted to the digital thermometer on the Ss but of course I now regret that too. If I could do it all over again I'd still get a stainless mash tun but I'd get the Chapman. Of course, I haven't used it and can't vouch for it but it'd be cheaper, it'd have an analog thermometer, and it should have the grain issue since it doesn't use a slope bottom. So in theory it'd remedy all my concerns. And I like how the lid clamps down.

Thanks. I'll take a look at the Chapman unit.

 

[ChapmanEquipment]

Great to hear someone is seeing the grain issue resolved with a different false bottom. Now I'll just have to decide whether to put more money into this.

Spartan1979, you might also want to look into the Chapman stainless MLT. I was heavily thinking about that one but went with the Ss because of the heating option (which I don't recommend) and because there was a forum where people were going back and forth on whether it was bad the Chapman uses 201 stainless instead of 304. I don't know enough about that so I decided not to risk it. But I asked John Palmer about this at the Brewing Network party at NHC in Baltimore this year and, while he wasn't familiar with the product, he talked about the differences between 201 vs. 304 (similar stuff to what I've seen posted), and then concluded that it was no big deal and it should be just fine. I was also attracted to the digital thermometer on the Ss but of course I now regret that too. If I could do it all over again I'd still get a stainless mash tun but I'd get the Chapman. Of course, I haven't used it and can't vouch for it but it'd be cheaper, it'd have an analog thermometer, and it should have the grain issue since it doesn't use a slope bottom. So in theory it'd remedy all my concerns. And I like how the lid clamps down.

Sorry to hear about your issues with the SS Brewtech mash tun. Before reading this thread, I'd always assumed that they had all their kinks worked out. But it sounds like they still have a ways to go.

I've seen the Brewtech mash tuns before, but I've never actually used one myself. I don't really have it in the budget to go out and by all my competitors' gear. But what I do have is a fully stocked inventory and a curious mind. I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison with ours, and see all the differences in the brewing experience myself.

So this idea just popped into my head. Would you be interested in doing a swap? If you sent us your used SS Brewtech mash tun, I could send you a new Chapman ThermoBarrel. That way, I'd be able to check out my competition, and you'd have a shiny new mash tun. It would be a win-win situation. All I'd ask is that you'd cover shipping the Brewtech mash tun to Portland, OR. Then we could send you a ThermoBarrel with a domed-false bottom, 3-piece ball valve, and thermometer, all new.

What do you think?

 

[9Dave]

Hi Steve, I'm definitely interested in this as I'd love to try out your mash tun, and as noted above, your design seems to eliminate a couple of the big problems I've had. I'd have to figure out the shipping costs. I'll PM you....

 

[9Dave]

I did the swap with Chapman. You can see my video comparison here: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rD-Her_n7k[/ame].

 

[dthompson79]

Reporting back on the 20 G blichmann false bottom. 2 batches in and it works Great!!!! other than the initial little bit during recirculation. I haven't seen one piece of grain make it through. And my mash efficiency jumped 10% (though this may be more of a symptom of switching to RIMS)

 

[Bobba]

Reporting back on the 20 G blichmann false bottom. 2 batches in and it works Great!!!! other than the initial little bit during recirculation. I haven't seen one piece of grain make it through. And my mash efficiency jumped 10% (though this may be more of a symptom of switching to RIMS)

Been following this thread with interest, as I just purchased one of these but am not ready to brew with it yet.
What is the manometer like for cleaning? The holes that run from above and below the false bottom are pretty small, do they clean out ok? I can just image bits of grain getting jammed in there.

 

[dthompson79]

They can be a little of a pain and little bits get caught. I just use a soft little tube brush to wipe them away gently. But the manometer is fantastic at helping me set my re-circulation rate

In my earlier post I wanted to be clear. I have had this MLT the better part of a year and have somewhere in the 10-15 batches ran through it. I was doing single infusion (as I was moving to RIMS) and was happy with everything except the stock false bottom. Figured out the Blichmann false bottoms fit perfectly and it appears to have fixed it. Good re-circulation rate (~1-1.5 G/ min) with a handful of rice hulls thrown in.

 

[Carlscan26]

I love the addition of the site glass mid rims tube like that!

What did you do to block the opening in the Blichmann false bottom for their dip tube?

 

[Sconnie12]

Question: Why would you spend all the extra money on an insulated tun when you are using a RIMS? I haven't understood this and have seen it a couple places. The only function use for the insulated tun would be a single infusion non recirculated mash, no?

 

[dthompson79]

Question: Why would you spend all the extra money on an insulated tun when you are using a RIMS? I haven't understood this and have seen it a couple places. The only function use for the insulated tun would be a single infusion non recirculated mash, no?

I started as a single infusion semi gravity system. Then migrated to RIMS. I figured I had it already and it might make it a little easier to hit mash out faster and have better temperature stability.

I love the addition of the site glass mid rims tube like that!

What did you do to block the opening in the Blichmann false bottom for their dip tube?

I got some stainless washers and a bolt sticking up so I would have something to pull the false bottom out

 

[sredz]

Do you have a picture of your Tun with the Blichmann false bottom installed? Would love to see it. I seem to be getting a lot of grain coming through the stock bottom.

 

[bunt1828]

How difficult is it to clean these things? The 20 gallon is supposed to weigh 60lbs empty(!), so I wouldn't want to have to pick it up and move it to get it clean. Once you've scooped out the majority of the grain and removed the FB, are the remaining bits of grain easily washed out without moving/tilting or anything like that?

 

[dthompson79]

Do you have a picture of your Tun with the Blichmann false bottom installed? Would love to see it. I seem to be getting a lot of grain coming through the stock bottom.

I am brewing this evening after my brew clubs annual picnic. I will snap a few pics of the process and false bottom then.

How difficult is it to clean these things? The 20 gallon is supposed to weigh 60lbs empty(!), so I wouldn't want to have to pick it up and move it to get it clean. Once you've scooped out the majority of the grain and removed the FB, are the remaining bits of grain easily washed out without moving/tilting or anything like that?

I scoop out as much grain as I can. Bring a hose ran from my sink over (hot tap water) and just spray it down with a bucket under the spigot. Haven't had to move it. It has worked well. I imagine if you didn't get as much grain as possible out first you would have a problem with the drain tube clogging. It isn't very big

 

[dthompson79]

Here is the false bottom in place, and a few brew day shots just because

 

[sredz]

Here is the false bottom in place, and a few brew day shots just because

Really nice, thanks for sharing. Did the original SS BrewTech silicone ring fit the Blichmann false bottom or did you get a different one? I always struggle wrestling that thing on!

 

[dthompson79]

Really nice, thanks for sharing. Did the original SS BrewTech silicone ring fit the Blichmann false bottom or did you get a different one? I always struggle wrestling that thing on!

It is the original. It actually goes on easier because it has a smooth edge. Takes me like 20 seconds versus the 2 minutes the original did

 

[Morsegeek]

Has anyone found a replacement for the thermometer that ships with the mash tun that will fit in the existing thermowell? The thermometer with my unit is inaccurate by 3-4 degrees F when compared to two other calibrated units.

 

[9Dave]

My LHBS didn't have one they could get from their suppliers/distributors. I also couldn't find one on the various online shops I checked. Someone recommended a couple of specific equipment suppliers that are not homebrewing companies and I believe I finally found one but I held off on getting it because of the high price (it was maybe $60, not including shipping), and then I eventually got rid of the Infussion. Sorry, I don't remember the name of the company or who told me about it. But your best bet may be looking outside the homebrew supply realm.

 

[crooow]

Have recent purchasers of the Brewtech mash tun had issues with grain getting through the false bottom or temperature drops? I’m wondering if these issues have been fixed.

 

[nas81]

Can anyone who owns the SS brewtech infussion mash tun comment on if the threaded portion of this part would work to be able to install an analog thermometer. I would prefer the SS tun over the Chapman given the volume markings but sounds like the LCD thermometer is very unreliable. I've read it's a 3/8 fitting for the LCD therm but most everything else is 1/2.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cen...T-x-3-8-Compression-Fittings/32388264593.html

 

[Hinodriver]

Why not just fly sparge with an extra gallon of sparge water. Then cut it early once your boil volume is obtained. This way way it will run clear and then discard the last gallon that contains the bits... that should be 1010 to 1020 gravity anyways.