1st Brew, errors, advice about yeast please

[Kevin Green]

Hi All,


I have been using the site for some time now to get as much info as possible before attempting my first proper brew. Thank you all, the information here is amazing.


It has now been 3 days since I put the carboy in the freezer (temp controlled) and I have several things I have done wrong along the way and I have one question for the pros.

1. I bought the kit (Golden Lager, Special grain, extract, hops from an online shop in Japan) over 6 weeks ago and didn’t put it in the fridge. It was on the table in up to 94 degrees, 85% humidity. Error 1..
2. I used too much water in the boil and didn’t really get all the malt extract out of the packet. My OG was 1.041, should have been 1.044. Error 2..
3. I ran our of Ice and it took 2 hours to cool down the wort to 85 degrees Error 3
4. I had no instructions on how to pitch the yeast, so I put the yeast in 85 degree water, swirled it all around until mixed in, left it for 2 hours (due to point 2) then pitched it into the carboy with no aeriation. Error 4

I had the freezer at 53 degrees and there was no movement whatsoever for 2 days. Last night, I gave it a good shake and raised the temp up to 60 degrees and this morning, there was 1 bubble in the airlock every 90 seconds.


I have ordered some saflager s23 and the plan is to wait until I get it, likely 5 days after starting, then take a hygrometer reading and if no movement, give it another shake and pour in the yeast dry.


My question, is this the best option?

(The bubbles on the surface are likely the left over from the shake 10 hours prior, and possibly the reason for the bubbles in the airlock also.)

Any advice on the above would be most appreciated


(Kevin, based in Tokyo)

 

[RPh_Guy]

If the airlock is bubbling, it's fermenting. Just give it time to finish

 

[Kevin Green]

Thanks, even if no visible activity in the carboy and and only bubbling from once in a minute to once in 5. (i have watched it a lot..)

 

[grampamark]

1. Leaving the kit unrefrigerated, especially the hops and yeast, for six weeks is not ideal, but most Ale yeasts will remain viable up to 100°,or so.

2. Missing your OG by .03 is not a big deal. Your beer will be a few tenths af a percent lower in ABV. That's not enough to notice.

3. Since you had a freezer, the best approach might have been to set the temp to "meat locker" before you started brewing and putting the carboy in the freezer until the beer reached pitching temp, then setting the temp controller to your desired fermentation temp.

4. Dry yeast can simply be sprinkled on top of the beer, after aerating, when the beer is at, or near, the desired fermentation temp.

If you have fermentable sugars and active yeast, fermentation will occur. Keep the beer in the freezer with the airlock in place until you obtain more yeast. The long wait between brewing and finally getting some active yeast in the beer is not desirable, but you may still end up with beer, or a reasonable facsimile thereof.

 

[mongoose33]

Bubbling very slowly might just be a change in barometric pressure, or changes in temps or similar. There is no krausen on top of the wort so I'd say it's probably not fermenting, or if so, very slowly.

Hey--it's your first brew, you made some mistakes (so did I), you've learned from them, things will get better. Good idea on the additional yeast.

 

[Kevin Green]

Thanks for the replies

 

[eltorrente]

You said that you "didn’t really get all the malt extract out of the packet." - was it because the steam got it all gummed up? When I use extract, I put it in an big bowl first, then pour it in from there. If it gets gummed up, I can just dip the bowl in and get it all out.

 

[Kevin Green]

Today's situation. I presume the bits at the top are clumped up yeast rather than Krausen? If clumped up yeast, i guess that means they arent working and i'll pitch more as soon as it gets delivered.

Still bubbling once a minute

 

[GoeHaarden]

That doesn't look like krausen, and I've never had discernible yeast clumps. It's hard to tell from the picture, and I'm never the one to jump to this conclusion, but it may be an infection...

Did you add anything like fruit or dryhops? Or any other reason to explain these new masses atop your beer?

 

[Kevin Green]

No fruit or dry hops. When i gave it a good shake up the other day, there were bits like this throughout the wort, thats why i thought it was yeast.

No bad smell or colour, just looks like yesat

 

[GoeHaarden]

No fruit or dry hops. When i gave it a good shake up the other day, there were bits like this throughout the wort, thats why i thought it was yeast.

No bad smell or colour, just looks like yesat

Yeah, maybe it's just the picture but the lack of obvious fermentation and the length of time makes me suspicious.

 

[NGD]

Asking purely out of ignorance as I’ve never done a lager, but wouldn’t there be very liittle krausen than a typical ale yeast?

@Kevin Green With the expections of a few missteps your off to a decent start. What was the original yeast you started with?

Another half packet of yeast would probably kick it off pretty nicely. 94f storage in high humidity probably out a good dent in your viable yeast count.

 

[Kevin Green]

TBH i think i was a bit ambitious starting of with a lager but have learnt a lot, if not a little frustrated.

It was a Japanese kit and all it said was dry lager yeast. I have no doubt it was good yeast put into a smaller packet but anyway i will switch suppliers.

i will add some as soon as it gets delivered and hope for the best.

 

[GoeHaarden]

but wouldn’t there be very liittle krausen than a typical ale yeast?

I still usually get about ~1-2 inches of krausen with my lagers. Looks pretty much the same as an ale fermentation, just not as vigorous...

 

[mongoose33]

Here are some examples of krausen so you'll know about what it should look like. As @GoeHaarden said, with a lager at something like 50 degrees the fermentation isn't as rigorous, and so an inch or maybe two inches is about as much krausen as you'd expect. All the examples below are ales, and you can see more krausen, but in a lager it'll look similar, a sort of tan-colored foam on top of the wort, perhaps with some green or brown streaks from hop residue and such. Or not. I've had it both ways.

 

[NGD]

Here are some examples of krausen so you'll know about what it should look like. As @GoeHaarden said, with a lager at something like 50 degrees the fermentation isn't as rigorous, and so an inch or maybe two inches is about as much krausen as you'd expect. All the examples below are ales, and you can see more krausen, but in a lager it'll look similar, a sort of tan-colored foam on top of the wort, perhaps with some green or brown streaks from hop residue and such. Or not. I've had it both ways.

View attachment 584642 View attachment 584643 View attachment 584645

I wonder if its because I brew only extract with specialty grains, but I rare get krausen that high. Usually about a half inch to an inch before it drops. Thank you for the input.

 

[mongoose33]

I wonder if its because I brew only extract with specialty grains, but I rare get krausen that high. Usually about a half inch to an inch before it drops. Thank you for the input.

It depends on the yeast, the recipe, and the temperature. Yeast vary as to how quickly they work, and that can be accentuated--or not--by temp. Warmer fermentation=more activity.

Those examples above just happen to be a few I have in pics, and all were ales. In such a fermenter I'll get 2 or 3 inches of krausen typically. If it's a lager fermenting at 50 degrees, an inch of krausen is typical, or a bit more, but nothing like the above.

 

[jack13]

More good news...you don't need to aerate when using dry yeast.

 

[mongoose33]

More good news...you don't need to aerate when using dry yeast.

Ummm....I don't think that's quite correct. The yeast have some sort of oxygen or similar as part of that process, but as the yeast divide and grow, guess what? The later generations do need some oxygen, or you're going to have a different process.

 

[kh54s10]

My first thought was the yeast variety. A lot of lager kits are really hybrids - lager like with ale yeasts, so they would be fermented at ale temperatures. It might help to try raising the temperature.

 

[jack13]

Ummm....I don't think that's quite correct. The yeast have some sort of oxygen or similar as part of that process, but as the yeast divide and grow, guess what? The later generations do need some oxygen, or you're going to have a different process.

Well, like nearly everything else about the brewing process, this is debatable. But from what I've gathered from this forum, most people don't worry about aerating when using dry yeast.

More to the point of the original post, though...he already didn't aerate, but I don't think this is something he should be concerned about.

I don't aerate when using dry yeast, but I DO follow this rule: When in doubt, do the thing that's going to give you peace of mind. It's worth it for that reason alone.

I usually vorlauf, for example, even though I know it almost certainly makes no difference.

 

[STMF]

Ummm....I don't think that's quite correct. The yeast have some sort of oxygen or similar as part of that process, but as the yeast divide and grow, guess what? The later generations do need some oxygen, or you're going to have a different process.

Some dry yeast manufactures say that you do not need to aerate. They have "stuffed" the yeast with enough of the essential so that they can devide a number of times.

If you plan to reuse the yeast, then aeration is needed because the reserves has been depleted.

 

[Kevin Green]

Update - i got my saflager-S23, gave the carboy a little shake, dumped in the whole packet and within 8 hours, i have 1 bubble every 3 seconds and slightly visible action in the wort. There is now what looks like an inch of Krausen.

When i opened to dump in the yeast, there had been activity as i could smell the alcohol. I still think the stuff floating on the top was Yeast as the Krausen does look quote similar and it could have just been small krausen before.. maybe.

I will leave it all in there for a couple of weeks and hope for the best.

 

[mongoose33]

Some dry yeast manufactures say that you do not need to aerate. They have "stuffed" the yeast with enough of the essential so that they can devide a number of times.

If you plan to reuse the yeast, then aeration is needed because the reserves has been depleted.

I'm always ready to learn something new--do you have a link or two to this kind of thing? I'd like to see what they say.

 

[STMF]

I'm always ready to learn something new--do you have a link or two to this kind of thing? I'd like to see what they say.

From the Fermentis site (as an example)


Can you clarify if it is correct that no oxygenation is needed or not for your dry yeasts? And would there a difference between lagers and ales on this?
We don’t recommend aerating the wort in normal conditions. The dry yeast has been produced and dried with a specific know-how of the Lesaffre Group, in order to maximize the Ergosterols content of the cells. This allows the yeast to grow/multiply and ferment well.

However, you could aerate the wort in particular cases, for example if you recycle the yeast. There is no difference (for the O2) between Ale and Lager.