1st all grain - Observations for improvement

[cercueil]

I brewed BM's Centennial Blond and for the most part it went really well. The only modification was adding 1 more lb of 2 row because I figured my efficiency would suck. After going through the process here are some questions I have:

1) My efficiency was about 65%. I mashed at 148 for 60 minutes. I did a double batch sparge with no mash out. I sparged with 170 degree water. I mixed the grains a waited only about 5 minutes and drained that into the bucket, repeat. (Should I have let the sparge water sit on the grain for a longer time?)

2) I don't have a hose running from the MLT to the pot. I read in Palmers book that you need this so you minimize oxygen getting into the wort. Has anyone not used a hose? I wont know until I taste it if this affected anything.

3) Damn that grain eats up a ton of water! I used Beer Smith and apparently I should set the batch size higher? I set it for 5.5 gallons post boil and I was left with about 4.5 gallons (After leaving about half gallon of gunk in the BK). My total water usage was about 7.25 gal.

 

[Denny]

There's nothing to be gained by letting the sparge water sit at all. I stopped doing that years ago and found no difference. If you use a hose from the mash tun to the kettle, it will start a siphon effect and help you drain your tun more easily. I figure grain absorption at about .12 gal./lb. of grain.

 

[sundowner]

I used Beer Smith and apparently I should set the batch size higher? I set it for 5.5 gallons post boil and I was left with about 4.5 gallons (After leaving about half gallon of gunk in the BK). My total water usage was about 7.25 gal.

Also, boil off rates are going to vary from system to system and from brewer to brewer, depending on how vigorous you boil the wort. You have to adjust to your own system and procedure...

 

[phatuna]

Great job, sounds like you learned some good lessons. Like the folks above say, you will loose a lot of water depending on your setup / how much grain etc. You can dial all of this in on beersmith as you become more comfortable w/ your system / procedure.

I am still trying to dial-in is my boil off rate. I have a big burner and had that baby cranked up for my first few boils. I was wonedering why I kept ending up with less than expected volume. Turned out I was boiling off over 20% of my volume.

It took me a bit, but I learned that you do not have to maintain a volcano, just a nice rolling boil and shoot for more like 10 - 15% boil-off.

Best of luck!

 

[passedpawn]

2) I don't have a hose running from the MLT to the pot. I read in Palmers book that you need this so you minimize oxygen getting into the wort. Has anyone not used a hose? I wont know until I taste it if this affected anything.

Although I would suggest a hose and valve from your mashtun to your pot, I don't think oxygenation has any effect here. And, when you send your boiled wort to the fermentation container, you absolutely want to oxygenate the wort to ensure quick and healthy yeast activity.

The time to avoid oxygenation is after fermentation has begun. They yeast don't need it then, and once the fermentation is complete oxygen becomes your enemy. So, make sure you use "quiet" methods to transfer your beer to bottling bucket/bottles or keg.

 

[bdaddy]

There's nothing to be gained by letting the sparge water sit at all.

That true? I had read somewhere that part of the sparging is letting it sit 10-15 minutes at 170 degrees, as that stops the enzyme conversion process.

 

[sundowner]

That true? I had read somewhere that part of the sparging is letting it sit 10-15 minutes at 170 degrees, as that stops the enzyme conversion process.

How dare you question the great oracle...

 

[Denny]

That true? I had read somewhere that part of the sparging is letting it sit 10-15 minutes at 170 degrees, as that stops the enzyme conversion process.

It's absolutely true. You probably read the other way on my website. Over the years, I've experimented with rests from 30 min. to 0 min. and found no difference. What you're talking about is a mashout. For that, you need to hold 170+ for 20 min. or more in order to denature enzymes. It's unnecessary in batch sparging since you get to a boil so quickly compared to fly sparging.

 

[cercueil]

OK..Great..Thank you for the replies..So I need to get a hose for the MLT, not worry about letting the grain sit at sparge temp for longer than a few minutes, and once I figure out how much water my system will eat I will be better able to judge it. The software is to just give you a round about figure.

 

[boredatwork]

Regarding the hose from the MLT to brew kettle. Even though Palmer said to use one in How to Brew, after an interview with Dr. Bamforth in the Brew Strong podcast on Hot Side Aeration Palmer changes his opinion.

 

[Benjibbad]

Just by looking at this mashing at 148 for 60 mins sounds kinda short. You might want to up your mash time to improve your efficiency. Did you do an iodine test?

 

[sundowner]

The thing about giving brewing advice, if you don't...nevermind...

 

[Benjibbad]

The thing about giving brewing advice, if you don't...nevermind...

ok.... I'll bite, correct me if I am wrong but mashing at lower temps creates more fermentable sugars which will normally result in a dryer beer. But due to the lower temps it takes longer to convert those starches to sugars. An iodine test would show if the conversion is complete. Asuming the OP is doing a single infusion mash then one could assess that the lower efficiency (which 65% isn't really bad) could have been caused by incomplete conversion. In theory the OP could increase his efficiency but allowing a longer mash time. The 170 degree water would stop the enzymatic conversion and rinse out the sugars available in the grains. Am I correct or did I miss the shot bus?

 

[sundowner]

Most of the conversion takes place in the first 15 minutes. Many a good beer has been brewed mashing at 148F for 60 minutes. I don't see how it could lower efficiency...more fermentables yes...lower efficiency no. A blond ale is suppose to be dry and crisp.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

ok.... I'll bite, correct me if I am wrong but mashing at lower temps creates more fermentable sugars which will normally result in a dryer beer. But due to the lower temps it takes longer to convert those starches to sugars. An iodine test would show if the conversion is complete. Asuming the OP is doing a single infusion mash then one could assess that the lower efficiency (which 65% isn't really bad) could have been caused by incomplete conversion. In theory the OP could increase his efficiency but allowing a longer mash time. The 170 degree water would stop the enzymatic conversion and rinse out the sugars available in the grains. Am I correct or did I miss the shot bus?

If you are really questioning whether a poor efficiency is due to poor conversion vs poor lautering you should check out Kaiser's work on this. He developed a spread sheet linked below. He also has a wiki page that explains most of this and a podcast on basicbrewing.com. It's very helpful but you do have to take more gravity samples than you normally would if you weren't trying to figure out where your inefficiency was. It's just something you have to plan on doing for your next batch.

I tried listening to the Brewstrong podcast on hot side areation as well but I found it so boring and way over the top with technical information. I couldn't pay attention to it at all. If they found you don't need a tube to run into your brew kettle great but I would still do it simply to get a good siphon and because I find it easier to vorlauf.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/efficiency-analysis-spreadsheet-107911/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/efficiency-analysis-spreadsheet-107911/