1st All Grain batch questions

[Califonia]

So I brewed my first batch of all grain yesterday and had a couple questions about how the day went and about the finished product. Again this was my first AG batch so the mash tun and brew kettle were new as well and I think that might have something to do with the "hiccups" I encountered.

First my Mash Tun. I am using a converted 72 qt Coleman xtreme with a SS water heater hose as my filter. The problem I encountered with that is it was so slow to drain. I was batch sparging so once I had the runnings clear I opened the ball valve up all the way and was surprised to see just a thin stream of wort coming out. This happened with the sparge as well

I had a 1/2 in ID tube draining the wort, could this be to big of an ID to keep a solid siphon going and that's the reason for the very slow drain? Or is the cooler just to big and the grain bed too shallow to keep up a high flow?

Second, As a result of the very slow drain, as the wort level got to 5 gal it pretty much was just a trickle. It took about 25-30 min to get the 5 gal level and I shut the valve and called it done. The problem is that Beersmith said I should have about 6 gal pre boil.

Should I have just added another 1 gal of plain water to top off to the pre-boil amount? Or would have been better to add another gal or so to the MT and drain it through the grain bed to extract more sugar?

The last problem was post boil. I started with ~5 gal and sent only 4 gal to the fermenter after the 90 min boil, with an OG of 1.082 :smack:! Is this even going to be drinkable? It was supposed to be a simple PA with only a little Magnum to bitter and 1 oz Ahtanum at 15 min for flavor. It seems like the wort got concentrated so much in the boil that this may be way to harsh once it is done fermenting.

Any advice would be great, Again I know that this is my first attempt and it can only get better from here so I hope that the advice I get from you guys will help iron out some of these finer details.

Thanks!!!

 

[Pie_Man]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you had a stuck mash and sparge, well at least partially stuck. Upon opening the valve to your mash tun, the wort should drain pretty easily, almost as if it were just water. The drain hose should not be the issue. It's possible your grains were crushed too finely. You may also want to consider adding rice hulls. Rye and wheat are notorious for causing lautering issues, if used.

Depending on your efficiency, you may need to sparge more, or simply add water to the BK. Buy a $20-25 refractometer from Amazon, or your LHBS. You can then quickly and easily take a pre-boil gravity reading and adjust your volume, or fermentables, while keeping your recipe in balance.

Is your beer going to be drinkable? Most likely, yes. You didn't post your recipe, planned OG, IBUs, etc., so it's a little hard to tell. If you didn't make an adjustments, you probably have a lower IBU to gravity ratio than you intended, so a more malty and higher alcohol beer than you set out for.

As you brew more AG batches on your system, predicting your efficiency, boil off rate, wort loses, etc. becomes more consistent. You also become more comfortable with making any adjustments on brew day.

 

[BWE]

It will definately be drinkable. What were your mash temps. If they were low, you may ferment out nicely and just have a strong pale ale.

As far as the trickle, sounds like something is collapsed, or when you opened it up all the way it compressed the grain. 1/2" is perfect. It's not really a siphon. It's the weight of the water forcing itself out. I've heard of people putting a spring inside the SS hose to keep it from collapsing. I use a false bottom, so my take isn't 1st hand.

Also, with your low boil volume, I would have added another gallon or so to the grain. BUT, before you add it to your wort, check the gravity with your Refractometer and ensure it's not below 1.010 or so. Anything below that can cause astringency.

 

[Califonia]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you had a stuck mash and sparge, well at least partially stuck. Upon opening the valve to your mash tun, the wort should drain pretty easily, almost as if it were just water. The drain hose should not be the issue. It's possible your grains were crushed too finely. You may also want to consider adding rice hulls. Rye and wheat are notorious for causing lautering issues, if used.

Depending on your efficiency, you may need to sparge more, or simply add water to the BK. Buy a $20-25 refractometer from Amazon, or your LHBS. You can then quickly and easily take a pre-boil gravity reading and adjust your volume, or fermentables, while keeping your recipe in balance.

Is your beer going to be drinkable? Most likely, yes. You didn't post your recipe, planned OG, IBUs, etc., so it's a little hard to tell. If you didn't make an adjustments, you probably have a lower OG/IBU ratio than you intended, so a more malty and higher alcohol beer than you set out for.

As you brew more AG batches on your system, predicting your efficiency, boil off rate, wort loses, etc. becomes more consistent. You also become more comfortable with making any adjustments on brew day.

The recipe was supposed to have an OG of 1.060 and IBU of 42. It was a Stone brewing PA clone. I mashed at 156* for 60 min. I had a feeling that maybe the filter had crushed, it would make sense, I did have a fairly decent flow the first 10-15 sec before it slowly turned into a slow, slow run off.

 

[govner1]

A couple of things I'd consider re your mash & sparge issues. First, don't open your ball valve all the way when draining either your first runnings or sparge. You can, probably did, create a vacuum that contributed to your slow draining.
Second, consider putting a copper tube w/ holes drilled in it in your mesh tube. This will help prevent the tube being compressed by the weight of your mash.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[mgortel]

First, don't open your ball valve all the way when draining either your first runnings or sparge. You can, probably did, create a vacuum that contributed to your slow draining.

Ditto to this.

 

[cease]

All good stuff here. I would also add that this is your first all grain brew so some adjustments with the new equipment should be expected. If you are using software make the needed adjustments (MLT loss, grain absorption, boil off etc) and see where you end up next time. I would have probably topped off with water but you will still make beer. Think of maybe dry hopping to give more hop flavor to balance the higher alcohol but overall it's gonna be a tasty beer.

A PA, did you use any wheat or just 2row and a bit of crystal? If you threw in some wheat that could have caused the slow sparge. A hand full of rice hulls work wonders and at like 2 bucks a bag are cheap insurance.

Happy brewing.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[BWE]

Yea, the first 2 AG's I did were off. I was low on temp, and VERY low on Gravity. 1.042 instead of 1.052, and I never got above 150°. But you know what, it fermented out to 1.007 and made a fantastic beer. So guaranteed, you'll have a drinkable beer. And at 156°, you'll have plenty of flavor. The only thing I would be dissapointed in if I were you would be that I only have 4 gallons to drink instead of 5. AG get's better. Congrats on your first batch.

 

[Califonia]

Second, consider putting a copper tube w/ holes drilled in it in your mesh tube. This will help prevent the tube being compressed by the weight of your mash.

I will be adding a thick copper wire coiled up inside of the mash screen for the next batch. Wanted to do it for this one but got lazy and didn't make it to the hardware store before the weekend brew session.

A PA, did you use any wheat or just 2row and a bit of crystal? If you threw in some wheat that could have caused the slow sparge. A hand full of rice hulls work wonders and at like 2 bucks a bag are cheap insurance.

There was no wheat or rye, just 2 row crystal 60 and 80 with some carapils. It's a good chance my LHBS milled the grain bill to thin.

The only thing I would be disappointed in if I were you would be that I only have 4 gallons to drink instead of 5.

Thats actually what bothers me the most and why I was so worried about it being a complete loss, I was afraid I had wasted a perfectly good brew day! To be honest even if it was harsh I would drink it anyway.... or at least invite some friends over to try my "awesome new homebrew"

Thanks everyone for the feedback. sounds like everyone's first AG batch is a little off in someway or another.

 

[invictusbrew]

Thats actually what bothers me the most and why I was so worried about it being a complete loss, I was afraid I had wasted a perfectly good brew day! To be honest even if it was harsh I would drink it anyway.... or at least invite some friends over to try my "awesome new homebrew"

Thanks everyone for the feedback. sounds like everyone's first AG batch is a little off in someway or another.

Yes, I would say 99% of the "first" AG brews have a mishap or two, but 99% of those turn out great anyways. Reading your first post I had a few tips, but they've mostly been covered, so the best advice at this point is to just not worry about it, enjoy it for what it is when it's done and really dive into these forums until your next batch as there is a lot of great information here. Some things are best learned the hard way, but it can save you some major headaches to learn from other people's mistakes as well. Cheers, and welcome to AG brewing.

 

[NC_Drewbrew]

I had miss haps through the first 6-8 batches when I made the jump to AG hahaha. Every time was a different miss hap from the time before, but all were very drinkable brews. I've had a stuck sparge, low efficiency, crush too fine, then to coarse....Then finally it all clicked on the last batch. I did a SMaSH and it was my first AG batch to hit every number....kegged this morning.

The best advice I can give is take notes, and learn from the mistakes. Also use brew software (I think I saw you were) and make sure that you have an accurate equipment profile for both boil kettle and mash ton. Ensure that all of your dead space is accurately accounted for and trub loss etc. I will make the software way more accurate and you will really be able to dial in your efficiency.

I tried to make some complicated recipes with my first few batches and then decided to try a SMaSH. Really gives you an easy brew day, with a tasty beer. In addition to learning your equipment you can learn what the different malts taste like and hops as well as they must stand on their own.

Most recent was a MO SMaSH with Mosaic hops. cant wait to tap the keg, the taste I got today when I transferred it was delicious and has me very excited!

Congrats on your first batch and good luck with the future ones.