100% Brett starter

[Chupidacabra]

So I'm new to starters. Especially Brett ones. I just want to make sure my process is okay before jumping in.

I have a homemade stir plate and a growler. My plan is to make 1.03 wort using light dme (how much roughly?) in 1L of pre boiled water. Let spin for a few days. (Can i use an airlock or is foil better?) then decant liquid and step up again with 1L.

I'm brewing 5g with WL Brett Brux trois.

If I were to leave behind enough bugs to make a culture for future brews, what would be the best way to go about this? Any advice or criticism would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[05m50dan]

Chup~
Just made a starter with the same yeast last night. Generally you want to make a 10:1 ratio of water(ml) to DME (grams). So for a 1 liter starter (1000ml) you'd need 100g DME.
You are probably better off just putting 1800ml in the growler and just making one batch instead of splitting it up and decanting. From what I have read B.B.Trois is a poor flocculator, so you'd dump a significant amount of cells if you did that. If you're on a stir plate you shoulder shouldn't have much of a krousen. This is the first time using BBTrois, but I've been making starters for every batch of beer for years.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[ICWiener]

If you're doing a 100% Brett fermented beer with nothing else, your starter needs to be big. Think lager sized. The last time I did a Brett starter, it was 4L. Had to step it up a few times.

 

[J343MY]

If you're doing a 100% Brett fermented beer with nothing else, your starter needs to be big. Think lager sized. The last time I did a Brett starter, it was 4L. Had to step it up a few times.

This is simply not true. Ale sized starters are perfectly fine.

 

[ICWiener]

This is simply not true. Ale sized starters are perfectly fine.

I'm sure you have your reasons for saying that, but when it comes to brewing advice, I'll trust Vinnie and Tomme:

http://byo.com/american-amber-pale-ale/item/262-brettanomyces

And NHC gold medal winners:

http://www.homebrewersassociation.o...week-100-brettanomyces-belgian-specialty-ale/

 

[J343MY]

I'm sure you have your reasons for saying that, but when it comes to brewing advice, I'll trust Vinnie and Tomme:

http://byo.com/american-amber-pale-ale/item/262-brettanomyces

And NHC gold medal winners:

http://www.homebrewersassociation.o...week-100-brettanomyces-belgian-specialty-ale/

Lager sized pitching rates for 100% brett fermented beers is an outdated concept. My own experience backs this up. You don't have to trust me though, but I'm sure you would trust Chad Yakobson.

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/866

Listen starting at 1:09:00

Actually listen to the whole thing. Lots of great info.

 

[05m50dan]

I don't know what you're talking about...according to an article he wrote in the Zymurgy magazine in May/June 2012, pg27, Chad Yakobson states, "While ale pitching rates are generally advised, one-and-a-half times those rates or closer to lager pitching rates could yield better results for homeowners."

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[TNGabe]

OP, have you tested to see if your growler works with your stir plate? All the growlers I have and have seen have rounded bottoms. In order for a stir bar to spin, the vessel it is in needs to have a flat bottom. You want to use foil on your starter, not an airlock.

White Labs brett has a pitifully small cell count. White labs recommends doing a 1L 1.040 starter for at least 7 days, crashing, decanting, and then doing another 1L starter. I'd probably try a 500mL and then step up to 2L. As shown in this thread, there are lots of opinions on how many cells/mL you want to pitch with brett. I'd err on the side of overpitching, but honestly, I'm not a huge fan of using a single brett strain for primary.

 

[Chupidacabra]

I'm going with 1.5L starter decant and another 1.5L starter. My stirbar does work with this particular growler. And I am using foil but if I may ask, what is the purpose? The spin from the plate create suction?

 

[ICWiener]

And I am using foil but if I may ask, what is the purpose?

It's to allow oxygen into the growler. It's good for the yeasts reproduction.

 

[christyle]

White Labs brett has a pitifully small cell count. White labs recommends doing a 1L 1.040 starter for at least 7 days, crashing, decanting, and then doing another 1L starter. I'd probably try a 500mL and then step up to 2L. As shown in this thread, there are lots of opinions on how many cells/mL you want to pitch with brett. I'd err on the side of overpitching, but honestly, I'm not a huge fan of using a single brett strain for primary.

Bumping this for clarification....

When you decant, you are discarding the liquid, assuming the good yeast has flocced out when crashed. Then pour a new starter solution onto the old cake and start again right? I forget if the good yeast is still in solution or has settled out....

 

[beerandloathinginaustin]

Yes. Although with Brett it can be a little trickier because it doesn't floc very well.

 

[christyle]

My 750mL starter seems to be going quickly after 1-2 days. I am going to be trying to step it up tonight. I will let it settle for a day or so, cold crashed, and then add an additional 1500ml to prep for friday's brew day.

 

[christyle]

So, as you said, it isn't floc'ing nearly at all after being in the fridge for a day and a half. Would it be better to try to get a tiny amount off and then add more new wort or just add new wort to the already fermented liquid? Whats the best way to step this up, or should I just start it up again on the stirplate and pitch tomorrow afternoon?

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Brettanomyces grows much slower than Saccharomyces. While Saccharomyces has a growth rate (µ max) of 0.4 per hour (a doubling time of 2.5 Hours)[1] Brettanomyces has a growth rate to 0.011 to 0.0013 per hour (a doubling time of 3.8 to 32 Days)[2] It has been my experience as well that Brett is a slow grower.

[1] Van Dijken, J. P., et al. "An interlaboratory comparison of physiological and genetic properties of four Saccharomyces cerevisiae strains." Enzyme and Microbial Technology 26.9 (2000): 706-714.
[2] Agnolucci, M., et al. "Genetic diversity and physiological traits of Brettanomyces bruxellensis strains isolated from Tuscan Sangiovese wines." International journal of food microbiology 130.3 (2009): 238-244.

 

[christyle]

With this being what everyone keeps saying is actually a Sacch strain (WL Brett Trois) I don't know if that applies. My 750mL starter certainly did multiply, visually guessing, about 4x in a day and a half. I pulled it out of the fridge and put it back on the stirplate to pitch this afternoon. Not ideal, but we will see.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

With this being what everyone keeps saying is actually a Sacch strain (WL Brett Trois) .

Sorry, I missed that. There is some pretty convincing DNA evidence on a couple of blogs that, yes, WL Brett Trois is actually Sacch. If you are using WL Brett Trois I would treat it just like an ale yeast for propagation. I've heard it still produces beer with a nice character regardless of it actually being a Sacch yeast.

Here is a blog post about it:
http://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.com/2014/12/brett-trois-riddle-wrapped-in-mystery.html