1 gallon RIMS or HERMS?

[nelsen3000]

So I am starting as a home brewer with the hopes of spending a few years mastering some recipes and trying to turn this into a commercial venture.

Before people jump on my back and say:
1. Try it first you may not like it (I will)
2. Good luck it's not that easy (I know)
3. What makes you think you can go pro? (It's my dream and you can't stop me)

My idea is to build the best system I can afford that will make pilot batches ie 1 gallon batches. Now I don't want to debate the merits of 1 vs 5 gallon batches because I plan on brewing 3-5 times a week. 1 gallon works because ingredients are cheaper, I can't drink all the beer brewing that often on a 5 gallon and it takes longer to brew on a 5 gallon.

My goal is repeatability and I plan on keeping careful track of every detail of every batch I make.

Now I have read as much as I can about RIMS vs HERMS vs BRUTUS and quite honestly it's a lot to take in and as I have not had much experience yet. I will of course start on a cheaper one gallon brew kit I will have to create to do all grains but I will want to get on better equipment ASAP so I can start keeping more accurate track and repeating.

My setup will be indoor garage brewing so I think electric would be the way to go but if I'm wrong I'm interested in being corrected.

3 questions...

What system would work best and why?

Is there a way to buy a one gallon setup or will it need to be created?

If it needs to be created do plans exist for a system of that scale?

Thanks so much guys everyone here has been a huge help so far!

 

[FarmerTed]

For that size, I'd either mash on a stove top, or if you want more control, build a small mash tun (2-3 gallons, I guess) with an electric heating element, and then hook it up to a pump and recirculate it. You may not need one of the full-blown March pumps, but could get away with a smaller and cheaper sous-vide pump. I've heard of people using things like this for re-circulation. I've thought of getting one myself to re-circ my mashes, but have no clue how to power them.

Personally, I'd focus on fermentation, sanitation and packaging first before I dove into re-circulating mashes. Get fermentation temperature control down first (if you don't already). Recipe development isn't that big of a deal, although it's obviously fun. It's pretty easy to do 1 gallon batches with extract and steeping grains. You can brew, cool and pitch in just a couple hours, and also develop recipes along the way that won't be that far off from full grain brews. The one big thing you have going for you with 1 gallon batches is pitching rates: there's no need to make starters for just about anything, but you may want to make sure you don't over-pitch if you plan on eventually scaling things up.

 

[Zamial]

So I am starting as a home brewer with the hopes of spending a few years mastering some recipes and trying to turn this into a commercial venture.

Before people jump on my back and say:
1. Try it first you may not like it (I will)
2. Good luck it's not that easy (I know)
3. What makes you think you can go pro? (It's my dream and you can't stop me)

Let the dream die unless:
1. You can lift 180lbs and walk 10 feet with it multiple times.
2. You like working in harsh/extreme environments with dangerous chemicals.
3. You are ok with making about the same annual income as a security guard.
4. You like working 8-12 hour days.

Moving on to the "system" you are talking about...

My idea is to build the best system I can afford that will make pilot batches ie 1 gallon batches.

This is a good idea. If you want to brew lots, have the time and space I say have at!

Now I don't want to debate the merits of 1 vs 5 gallon batches

I want you to fully understand that brewing a 1 gallon batch of something is RADICALLY different when you get up over 1/2 bbl in volume or more. Things do not simply scale up and down like you think they would. A 1 gallon recipe is as valuable as last years Christmas flyers. I can hand out the same recipes and ingredients to 10 different people and have them each give me a bottle and end up with 10 different beers.

1 gallon works because ingredients are cheaper,

Not a chance. The ingredients are a constant and are cheaper to get in bulk.

I can't drink all the beer brewing that often on a 5 gallon

and you want to be a brewer? I drink the equivalent of 3-5 gallons a week. 3 being just sampling things at work. Ever taste hot, unfiltered, flat beer looking for faults? You need to LOVE beer to be a pro brewer.

and it takes longer to brew on a 5 gallon.

the difference in time is about 10-15 minutes everything else is a constant.

My goal is repeatability and I plan on keeping careful track of every detail of every batch I make.

You can NOT make repeatable beers on a small scale. Everything down to the phase of the moon effects beer. The best bet is to brew large batches like the pros do and even we have issues with this...

Now I have read as much as I can about RIMS vs HERMS vs BRUTUS and quite honestly it's a lot to take in and as I have not had much experience yet. I will of course start on a cheaper one gallon brew kit I will have to create to do all grains but I will want to get on better equipment ASAP so I can start keeping more accurate track and repeating.

For a 1 gallon system I would do it on the stove top. check out this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/ and all the other stickies in the beginner section if you have not already. This thread really should have been put in THAT section...

3 questions...

What system would work best and why?

Is there a way to buy a one gallon setup or will it need to be created?

If it needs to be created do plans exist for a system of that scale?

The system that works the best is the one you have to brew on. The "plans" for everything are found in the DIY section.

IMHO you need to actually brew beer before deciding on what you need.

 

[Arrheinous]

Let the dream die unless:
1. You can lift 180lbs and walk 10 feet with it multiple times.
2. You like working in harsh/extreme environments with dangerous chemicals.
3. You are ok with making about the same annual income as a security guard.
4. You like working 8-12 hour.

Well let's say the OP makes it... At that point they've raised a boatload of capital, worked out business/distribution aspects, etc. It's all hands on deck and the owner might be more valuable to the company as a leader than a brewer.

How many founders of a microbrew venture are actually brewing and not just running a business by then? Do microbrew owners ultimately make beer or are they selling it (and how does that fit in to what they originally set out to do?)?

(Not trying to be unsupportive of a fellow homebrewer but this is the kind of question for anyone who wants to make a business out of a hobby.)

 

[nelsen3000]

I work 18 hours a day in a much less enjoyable job saving money for just the opportunity of my own brewery. I didn't mean to come off as totally naive I have read dozens and dozens of books on starting a nano/micro brewery and I understand its very hard and only getting harder, that said...I asked about a system and havent really gotten an answer. I understand I could cook on the stove but my question is can a one gallon system be purchased, I would like one as much for the refining of technique as I would for the fun of having it in my brew room.

What system would work best and why?

Is there a way to buy a one gallon setup or will it need to be created?

If it needs to be created do plans exist for a system of that scale?

 

[Yooper]

Well let's say the OP makes it... At that point they've raised a boatload of capital, worked out business/distribution aspects, etc. It's all hands on deck and the owner might be more valuable to the company as a leader than a brewer.

How many founders of a microbrew venture are actually brewing and not just running a business by then? Do microbrew owners ultimately make beer or are they selling it (and how does that fit in to what they originally set out to do?)?

(Not trying to be unsupportive of a fellow homebrewer but this is the kind of question for anyone who wants to make a business out of a hobby.)

All of the guys I know who own nanos/micros work their asses off and shovel a lot of grain. They dont' stop brewing until they can afford to hire a brewmaster who is a better brewer than they are. (And then can't afford a better brewmaster as a micro, so they still keep brewing themselves.)

What system would work best and why?

Is there a way to buy a one gallon setup or will it need to be created?

If it needs to be created do plans exist for a system of that scale?

A one gallon batch is so small that it would be impossible to set up a real "system" for it. You can make a little mashtun out of a cooler or a pot, but that's about it for equipment. A HERMS or RIMS for such a small batch would be ridiculous as a batch that small won't lose heat, and if it does than put it someplace warm (like in an oven turned off).

 

[FarmerTed]

This is a 3 gallon electric brewing system. It's pretty cool, but you have to build it yourself. I think it would be hard to do it at 1 gallon scale, unless you pitched out a gallon or so of wort at the end of boil.

One of the things that's hard to replicate going from 1 gallon to bigger (5, 10 or multi-barrel) is the boil off rate. You have to figure you'll boil off about a gallon of wort per hour, and so to end up with 1 gallon of wort, you'll start with 2. Boiling off 50% of the water has to affect the wort profile, and will be hard to reproduce at larger scales, where you're supposed to boil off 15% or the water, or something like that. I guess you could start the boil at ~1.2 gallons, and then slowly add back water during the boil to finish around 1 gallon.

 

[Curtis2010]

...
How many founders of a microbrew venture are actually brewing and not just running a business by then? Do microbrew owners ultimately make beer or are they selling it (and how does that fit in to what they originally set out to do?)?

(Not trying to be unsupportive of a fellow homebrewer but this is the kind of question for anyone who wants to make a business out of a hobby.)

I think in general that's true of almost any business. Your real job becomes leadership not whatever the base skill of the business involves. If you want the business to grow and be successful then someone has to take the helm. In a small business that means the owner(s). If you are in the brewhouse for many hours per day then who is running the business?

Certainly been my experience. Ive started/managed a number of businesses. Started out early in life as a software engineer. Loved it. Used to marvel that I actually got paid to do all this cool stuff. Over time I drifted (somewhat unintentionally) up the food chain, got further and further away from technical stuff and more involved in dealing with operational BS (contrary to the popular saying **** actually defies gravity...it rolls up hill).

This could be any business. Just substitute "brewing" for "technology".

If you want to be a businessman then start a business. If you love something, and want to make a career of it, then strive to do that. For example, work towards becoming a brewmaster instead of a business owner. Building your own system is certainly compatible with that objective.

 

[nelsen3000]

Farmer Ted that link is awesome I have been looking at using 2 gallon containers to do my 1 gallon brewing in so I could scale that down and do everything I needed. Thanks

 

[pdxal]

To answer your question, there are no complete 1 gallon systems out there for sale. As said before, do it on your stove top. It won't replicate a commercial brewery, but it will make beer on that scale. I would suggest BIAB for that small a set up. You could make tons and tons of pilot batches with little in equipment investment that way.
The practical aspects of scaling up and jumping from 1 gallon homebrewer to commercial have been mentioned. You could also check out probrewer.com for more information.

 

[zazbnf]

I built a 1 gallon electric brewery a while back.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-electric-1-gallon-brewery-build-366896/

I have used it a few times for test batches. While it is true not everything scales precisely in brewing, with careful measuring and attention to detail I think 1 gallon is more repeatable than larger scale. Precise temperature control is just easier with the smaller volume. I agree HERMS or RIMS at this scale doesn't make sense, that is why my 1 gallon mash tun is built to be "jacketed" and temp is maintained by heating the surrounding water.