1 bbl system on the cheap

[pgslaughter]

So, I just got a 40 gallon self-contained steam-jacketed kettle for 300 bucks off craigslist. The price was just too good to pass up, but now I have a problem. What is an inexpensive and durable option to match with this soon to be brew kettle? I have a 10 gallon converted sanke keg system, but I want to go up to brewing a barrel. I would like to stick with stainless steel, but even used stainless steel drums I've found are over 500 dollars a pop! Any ideas for a cheap 1 barrel mash and HL tun?

 

[bgruis]

One of our local breweries dosent use a traditional HLT at all, they use an "instant" hot water heater system. At first I thought it sounded crazy but if you think about it its brillant. It's got to be infinitely more efficent than bring that huge volume of water to temp and keeping it there.

That may save you some money, not only in upfront cost but also long term operating expense.

 

[outside92129]

I also visited a brewery last week and they use an instant water heater too. Saves space, energy, and time.

Check out the seller named renfrow5980 on ebay, he has SS barrels for $175 + freight.

 

[pgslaughter]

Wow, that's funny because that was one thing I was thinking of as well. I have lived in Europe for a few years in the past and my apartment had a tankless water heater. I was thinking, how could that not be a better idea? I'll have to take a look at those!
And those cheap barrels look great for a mash tun, thanks so much for the replies guys!

 

[BargainFittings]

A plastic barrel will work fine for a mash tun and you can usually source them cheap locally.

 

[stevehaun]

HDPE plastic barrels work great for mash tuns. I make 35 gallon batches and use a 55 gallon HDPE barrel for the mash tun. They are quite thick and it is very easy to install a bulkhead fitting. They are also quite light when you go to dump grain and clean. They also hold heat much better than stainless.

 

[moose7710]

You have any picutures of this kettle, I'd really like to see it. Thanks

 

[EarthBound]

A plastic barrel will work fine for a mash tun and you can usually source them cheap locally.

+1 to this. This is what I plan on doing. I have a 55 gallon SS drum that I plan to use as a BK.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

If you go with the stainless drum for a mash tun, you will either have to insulate it well, direct fire it or go RIMS/HERMS. Your mash temp will drop quickly if you don't. One more expense to consider. If your 40 gallon tank is steam jacketed, why not make that your mash tun? You could take advantage of the jacket for maintining temp. Could probably even run water from an on-demand water heater through it as needed.

 

[pgslaughter]

I don't have a picture of the actual kettle, but it looks just like this:
http://www.ckitchen.com/commercial/cooking-equipment/kettles/groen-ee-40-kettle.html
It's all self-contained, the boiler unit is built under the kettle, just set it and forget it type stuff. I haven't used it yet, it's 208v so I need an extra laundry hookup...

BBL Brewer, I was thinking that it would be simpler to insulate a barrel and use one of the many false bottom systems available than rig up a screen on the very round bottom of the kettle (I've attached a picture of the interior). What do you use to fire a boil on the 55 gallon SS tank? Is the bayou classic 10" banjo burner big enough? I also didn't think that the kettle would be accurate enough to dial in the correct mash temp.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

BBL Brewer, I was thinking that it would be simpler to insulate a barrel and use one of the many false bottom systems available than rig up a screen on the very round bottom of the kettle (I've attached a picture of the interior). What do you use to fire a boil on the 55 gallon SS tank? Is the bayou classic 10" banjo burner big enough? I also didn't think that the kettle would be accurate enough to dial in the correct mash temp.

I see. Hadn't envisioned it looking like that. Probably not a good fit for an MLT. And you're right, insulating is not that hard, it would just be way cooler with a water/steam jacket...oh well. As for fire, I can only advise as to what I use. I use 32 tip cast iron jet burners hooked up strait to natural gas. They are rated for around 150,000 btu/hr if I remember correctly. They throw some major heat. Some folks claim that banjo's are superior to these, but I've never had any first hand experince with them. I was happy with the price and performance of what I have so I've never tried anything else. It probably takes me somewhere around 30-45 minutes to bring 20 gallons of cold water to a boil (I've never actually timed it). I have (3) 40 gallon kettles. By BK and HLT both have burners, my MLT does not. I insulated my MLT body and lid with poly lined fiberglass and good old duct tape. It loses about 1 degree per hour. The hard part is hitting the target mash temp right on the button. Do a couple test runs and see how much heat your losing during transfer of water from HLT to MLT and then make adjustments to your equations beforehand. Also, you could consider batch sparging with a slotted manifold instead of fly sparging with a false bottom. I do the former and get consistent efficiencies above 80%. It's a lot less hassle too IMO, but I'm not trying to persuade you. One last word of advice, you might want to start thinking about what to use for a filter in your BK. My first batch I had to siphon 30 gallons of wort because of a clogged filter. I now use whole hops exclusively and a simple chore boy ss scrubie. If you plan to use pellet hops, you need to start working on a filter solution or make a big hop bag. Good luck with the build.

 

[pgslaughter]

BBL, I want to pose a question to you. If you had the option of the self-contained electric kettle or a burner fired drum what would you choose? I only ask because now that I've gotten some of your insight and the link to some fairly inexpensive SS barrels, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to sell the kettle (I've seen the same kettle listed on ebay and craigslist for well over 1000 dollars) and get more of the other equipment Im going to need for doing 1 bbl brews. Also, what do you use to ferment? I was planning on getting a few plastic 35 gallon conicals but read that that might not be enough headroom for 31 gallons of wort.

 

[pgslaughter]

Also, on bayou classic's website, they recommend that a jet burner be no closer than 12 inches from the base of the pot to be heated. How close are your burners?

 

[BBL_Brewer]

BBL, I want to pose a question to you. If you had the option of the self-contained electric kettle or a burner fired drum what would you choose? I only ask because now that I've gotten some of your insight and the link to some fairly inexpensive SS barrels, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to sell the kettle (I've seen the same kettle listed on ebay and craigslist for well over 1000 dollars) and get more of the other equipment Im going to need for doing 1 bbl brews. Also, what do you use to ferment? I was planning on getting a few plastic 35 gallon conicals but read that that might not be enough headroom for 31 gallons of wort.

Also, on bayou classic's website, they recommend that a jet burner be no closer than 12 inches from the base of the pot to be heated. How close are your burners?

Honestly, I have kicked myself for not giving an electric fired system more thought before my build. It would be better in a lot of ways. I would at least give it a try before you sell it so that you can compare the two options before making a choice. Although, if you could flip it for double or triple what you gave for it, that would help offset your costs.

I hate to say it, but I still ferment in buckets. My budget hasn't allowed any more upgrades yet. I plan to get a couple of brewhemoths hopefully within the next year. As for the plastic conicals, one 35 gallon would definitely be too small for a whole bbl, but two would be perfect. You could probably do 20 gallons in one 35 but I would plan on putting 15 in each. Unless you plan to do 2 bbls back to back in which case you could put 20 in each if you had 3. That's a Shi* load of beer though. Depending on what the plastic ones are selling for, you can get brewmoths for around $450 and they are 22 gallon capacity. Just an option. Also you might want to consider keeping some smaller fermenters around for varieties sake. You can try different yeasts or dry hop differently stuff like that. Also, when brewing, you can split your mash runnings between your BK and HLT and then steep some additional speacialty grains and hop differently to make two totally different beers. Not everyone wants to drink 31 gallons of the same brew.

I keep my burners about 7-8 inches from the bottom of my 40 gallon kettles and less than that if I'm using a smaller pot. When it gets real hot in the summer I brew 5 gallon batches to keep cooling costs down and because I have trouble cooling the wort with my immersion. Anyway, adjust your burners so that the flame licks the bottom of the pot well but not so close that the flame fans all the way out and starts heading up the side of the pot. 12 inches is way too far away IMO. If you decide to go with the cast rion jet burners, here is a link to a cheap vendor.

http://www.cpapc.com/store/32-Tip-Round-Nozzle-Jet-Burner-P470C0.aspx

 

[pgslaughter]

BBl, unfortunately the Brewhemoth has gone up in price, it's 629 now! The plastic I was looking at starts at 86.50, without fittings or stand (http://www.kentuckytank.com/35-Gallon-Inductor-Tank_p_1740.html).
A 60 gallon one is 112 dollars though, and for storages sake I might just go with that, it's the same diameter, just much taller.
Also, when using whole hops, do you have to compensate the weight difference in your recipe? My brewing program doesn't show any difference between them, seems like it should...
I've got a lot to consider! I'll definitely start a thread when I get to putting together the MLT and HLT.
Thanks for all the help.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Man, they did go up....that sucks.

Whole hops absorb some wort, I don't know about any weight difference. If you mean is the utilization lower welll, depends on the hops.

Good luck.