Zymurgy article on mashing for more banana esters

[SpanishCastleAle]

Anybody tried the mashing technique mentioned in the recent Zymurgy?

Cliff notes of the technique is (going from memory):
Dough-in to hit a really low temp, like 85*-90* F.
Pull a small thick portion of the mash and heat to ~145* F.
Rest for ~30 min.
Mix back into main mash to rest at ~100*-104* F for 30 min.
Then increase the temp up to a regular sacc rest temp and proceed normally from there.

This allegedly gets the maltase enzyme an opportunity to work on the maltose created in that first rest to create more glucose in the wort. They claim it yields a little over twice the glucose content as a regular mash (which is still very small relative to maltose content). The extra glucose makes the yeast create more esters.

Just curious if anyone had used it and the effectiveness of it.

 

[lowlife]

No, but Im curious as to why this would be better than temp temp control during fermentation. Example.. chimay strain fermented in the 70s is undrinkable (to me) because there are so many esters.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

No, but Im curious as to why this would be better than temp temp control during fermentation. Example.. chimay strain fermented in the 70s is undrinkable (to me) because there are so many esters.

Good question. Maybe it has to do with getting the banana esters without the fusels and any other unwanted flavors from higher temp fermentations. My Belgians and Wheat beers always seem to have way more phenolics and low esters, sometimes I like that but other times I really would like more 'naners.

 

[passedpawn]

Anybody tried the mashing technique mentioned in the recent Zymurgy?

Cliff notes of the technique is (going from memory):
Dough-in to hit a really low temp, like 85*-90* F.
Pull a small thick portion of the mash and heat to ~145* F.
Rest for ~30 min.
Mix back into main mash to rest at ~100*-104* F for 30 min.
Then increase the temp up to a regular sacc rest temp and proceed normally from there.

This allegedly gets the maltase enzyme an opportunity to work on the maltose created in that first rest to create more glucose in the wort. They claim it yields a little over twice the glucose content as a regular mash (which is still very small relative to maltose content). The extra glucose makes the yeast create more esters.

Just curious if anyone had used it and the effectiveness of it.

I laughed when I read that article for 2 reasons:

1. I don't want more banana. I have the opposite desire.
2. Wheat beers are one of the easiest, quickest brews I make. I have no desire to change that.

 

[remilard]

It would be pretty darn easy to increase the glucose content of the wort without resorting to a particular mash regime.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

It would be pretty darn easy to increase the glucose content of the wort without resorting to a particular mash regime.

I thought that too and I don't remember any mention of Reinheitsgebot or anything. I'm sure there are some that think that there is a pretty darn easy way to increase the glucose content without resorting to adding any adjuncts. Depends on your POV I guess.

 

[Malticulous]

I read the artical and found it a little odd. I've never had a problem getting banana from any hefe yeast. Clove on the other hand is illusive.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I read the artical and found it a little odd. I've never had a problem getting banana from any hefe yeast. Clove on the other hand is illusive.

Ha, I get just the opposite. I like the phenols better in Belgians and want more 'nana in the rare wheat beer I make.

 

[pjj2ba]

I haven't had a chance to read the article yet but this sounds interesting. I've been thinking in my head for a while about Belgian beers and sugar additions. We always talk about how the sugars let us get a dry finish in these styles, but we seem to overlook the role of added glucose in increasing ester production.

My next question is then, how does temperature affect this wort with extra glucose? Does one still need to ferment on the warm side to get the banana esters? I like to ferment cool and typically get lots of clove, but wouldn't mind just a touch of banana. Otherwise I might resort to splitting a batch and fermenting each portion at a different temp, and then blend at kegging.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

I could write that article pretty short:

If you want more banana, ferment warmer, and use Wy3068.

If you want more clove, ferment cooler, and use Wy3638.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I could write that article pretty short:

If you want more banana, ferment warmer, and use Wy3068.

If you want more clove, ferment cooler, and use Wy3638.

I must be fermenting too cold because I get mostly phenols with 3068. I think I read Jamil recommended a low temp, like 62* F, so I went cold.

I've also read that underpitching can do it (I think it was one of those Wyeast studies).

 

[DerBraumeister]

If you want more clove, you can try step mashing with a ferulic acid rest at 43-45°C

 

[JKoravos]

I must be fermenting too cold because I get mostly phenols with 3068. I think I read Jamil recommended a low temp, like 62* F, so I went cold.

I've also read that underpitching can do it (I think it was one of those Wyeast studies).

Maybe you have low sensitivity to banana aroma (or high sensitivity to clove)? I fermented my last hefe with 3068 at 62-63*F and didn't get any clove. I think I have a low sensitivity for clove aroma. I definitely got banana in it, not overwhelming though.