Yeast starter question for ~1.085 SG stout

[grimstuff]

I'm planning on brewing an Imperial Stout next week. I will be using a White Labs vial. In John Palmer's book he states that such heavy stouts should have about 400 billion cells pitched in them. According to him, the White Labs vial has around 100.

1. Is it pretty much standard procedure to use a yeast starter for high-gravity beers?

2. Palmer says to use DME to make the starter. However, the recipe I am using is LME+specialty grains. Can I substitute an equal amount of LME in lieu of DME?

3. I have no yeast nutrient. Is this a big deal?

Thanks for the help!

 

[helibrewer]

1. Yes, you should definitely do a starter.

2. You can use either, 1gram extract per 10ml of starter.

3. No big deal. Do you have a stir plate??

Ideally you should look at (2) 2 Liter starters with one yeast vial in each...that will yield about 410 billion cells.

 

[nbolmer]

1) It's standard procedure to use a starter for pretty much every beer
2) It's MUCH easier to use DME for a starter. You want the starter malt to be as light as possible to have a minimal impact on the flavor of your recipe. LME is sticky and tough to measure (you have to spatula it out of the the measuring device. If you don't have DME, and must use LME, use 1/4 cup per 500ml starter.
3) Not a big deal - do you use star san? It actually disassociates into a bit of yeast nutrient if you sanitize your fermentor with it (don't rinse!)

 

[BryanJ]

Use this as a quick reference to yeast count for any beer: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

1. Yes, whenever i use liquid yeast i make a starter.
2. Yes, lme is fine its just a little harder to measure exact amounts.
3. No, you're fine without it.

 

[imperialipa]

You definately want a starter. I would at least do a 2000ml starter and just use DME. I always pour out the dme and just pitch the yeast anyways.

Interesting read off White Labs website

Brewers Notes:
Flavors from this yeast vary greatly with the beer produced. The higher the gravity, the more winey the result. Beers over 16% ABV begin to taste less like beer, and more like fortified wines. With low gravity beers, this yeast produces a nice, subtle English ale-like ester profile.As the gravity increases, some phenolic character is evident, followed by the winey-ness of beers over 16% ABV. Most fermentations will stop between 12-16% ABV unless these high gravity tips are performed:

Aerate very heavily, 4 times as much as with a normal gravity beer. Less oxygen dissolves into solution at high gravity.
Pitch 3-4 times as much yeast as normal.
Consider aerating intermittently during the first 5 days of fermentation. This will help yeast cells during a very difficult fermentation. Aerate with oxygen for 30 seconds or air for 5-10 minutes.
Higher nutrient levels can allow yeast to tolerate higher alcohol levels. Use 2 times the normal nutrient level. This is especially important when using WLP099 to make wine and mead, which have almost no nutrient level to begin with.
Do not start with the entire wort sugar at once. Begin fermentation with a wort that would produce a 6-8% beer, and add wort (it can be concentrated) each day during the first 5 days. This can be done together with aeration. This is mandatory if the reported 25% ABV is to be achieved.

 

[grimstuff]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I would prefer the method of using the DME, pouring off the liquid portion and using the slurry, but it doesn't look like I can get any DME within the time frame I have. So, I will use 1 cup LME for a 2 liter starter, with no yeast nutrient. I hope this won't interfere with any flavors. No, I don't have star san, or a stir plate. This will be my second brew, and I am still gathering a lot of the equipment.

Anyway, thanks again!