yeast best used by February?

[aaron4osu]

I'm prepping for a Monday brew of Bells Two Hearted IPA found here on the forum(recipe below). I'm not sure I will have enough time to make a starter at this point(saturday at the earliest), but i have a second vile of the same yeast that has been in my fridge sealed with a "best used by" date of Feb. 2010. The vial has been sealed and wrapped in tinfoil, to avoid light exposure, since October. Can I still use it for an extra yeast count. I still plan on using a vial of the same yeast purchased today. If anything happens to be wrong with it at this point, will the newer yeast kill any off flavors the old yeast causes? I'm following the recipe below except for substituting White labs California ale yeast and I boosted the grain count by about 36% to 17 LB's total, which should take me to about 1.74 OG/ 1.18 FG.

Another idea: Can I use the new batch as normal, then a few days or a week later, use the old batch after its been proofed it in a starter for a a few days? That way I can maybe get a boost in eating up that extra malt and getting my final gravity down.

or the reverse? proof the old yeast for saturday and sunday in a starter. If there is action use it first, and follow next week with the newer yeast to finish up the ferment.

Thanks, Aaron

All Grain Recipe - Bells Two Hearted IPA
::: 1.064/1.012 (5.5 Gal) mine will be about 1.74 OG
Grain Bill (75% Efficiency assumed)
10 lbs. - 2 Row Pale Malt
2 lb. - Vienna Malt
1/2 lb. - Caramel/Crystal Malt (15L)
1/2 lb. - CaraPils
Hop Schedule (47 IBU)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (60 min.)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (45 min.)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (30 min.)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (15 min.)
1/2 oz. - Centennial (flameout)
1 oz. - Centennial (Dry Hop)
*optional*
If you like a bit more hop, use 1/2 oz of
Centennial as a First Wort Hop addition
Yeast
I'm using White labs vial of Califorinia Ale Yeast instead of
Wyeast American Ale II Yeast (#1272) -
1800 ml starter

Mash/Sparge/Boil
Mash at 153° for 60 min.

 

[JJL]

White Labs vials are supposed to be pitchable. Granted, I would rather make a starter as well, but they are supposed to have a high enough cell count to pitch directly into the wort. If it were me, I would aerate my wort really well and just pitch the one good, healthy vial. it may be a little slower to take off, but it should be fine. I just wouldn't want to use the older yeast straight out of the vial without making a starter to give it a little energy. I guess you could always make a starter with the old yeast while you are waiting to see if your wort takes off with the single vial. It won't hurt anything to pitch more of the same yeast a couple of days later if fermentation hasn't taken off.

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

If you have time to make a starter, why not use the old vial and let it grow up to the volume you want? The vial surely has plenty of viable yeast cells, though some have died off. Those fallen comrades are likely to just contribute food for the progeny of the live ones. Autolysis in a yeast cake should only be an issue in a beer that is done fermenting, i.e. without multiplying yeast to consume the products of autolysis. That's not an issue in a starter. They should get used up there as the yeast grow. If they aren't, they are gone when you decant the spent starter beer off of the yeast cake. Then you have the yeast count you want, and your new vial can be saved for a later brew.

 

[SC_Ryan]

That's a pretty high starting gravity. I would pitch as many healthy yeast cells as possible. The best way to do that is to make a starter as soon as you can and pitch both vials into the starter. Even if the starter sits for just a few hours you will still get reproduction.

I wouldn't worry about off flavors from the older vial. It's not even that far out of date. Off flavors from underpitching would be my biggest concern with an OG of 1.074

 

[Revvy]

Bobby M did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.

I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.

With any stored, old yeast you just need first to apply the "sniff test" if it smell bad, especially if it smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.

Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.

If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't need to sweat too much about how old a yeast is, if it's properly stored.

we just need to think in terms of making starters. Viability isn't really an issue if you are reproducing a lot of healthy cells. Which is what you are doing when you make a starter.....

Really even with "old yeast" if there is a few cells, they will reproduce.

 

[aaron4osu]

Thanks guys. Revvy i'll keep my nose on the lookout for anything that smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.

what do you guys think about making a starter with the old yeast tonight, and pitch that when i brew on monday. Then use some of the wort from monday and make a starter with the newer yeast, and pitch that after about a week when ferment slows.

 

[SC_Ryan]

The old yeast vial will need to be stepped up in order to get to the proper pitch amount which will take a couple of days minimum. You may need to even step up the new yeast to get it to a proper amount. There is no need to re-pitch yeast at the end of fermentation if you have a healthy fermentation to begin with. Use this calculator.

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

And this is a good read.
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php