WLP616 funky cider blend log

[Electrake]

Posted in the wrong area, this is a repost started 14 may 2017

I recently got a vial of the yeast stated in the title from the White Labs vault. Its description is as follows:
WLP616 Funky Cider Blend ** NEW **
This blend of yeasts and bacteria for cider is a blend of two Saccharomyces strains combined with some Brettanomyces and Lactobacillus. This blend results in a slight tartness and a mild funk aroma that will result in less than 2 weeks. Light pellicle will form because of the Brettanomyces.
Acidity production: low.

I got a cider started yesterday, 5 gallons with a pound of brown sugar added for a SG of 1.068. Yeast activity began within an hour.


17 may 2017
1.025 gravity today, 3 days after pitch. Slight funky flavor developing. More so than with any other yeast I've used.

 

[Drewed]

What is your best guess on how to describe funk?

 

[Electrake]

depends on the source i guess.. this has brett in it, so definitely a sort of barnyard flavor.

 

[Electrake]

week 2 today, gravity is at 1.008. Still has krausen

 

[Electrake]

still chugging along. the cider is still churning inside of the carboy, I am eager for it to cease and begin forming a pellicle

 

[andrewf1985]

I got a batch on on Saturday using 616, fermentation was visible very quickly and then went nuts yesterday. Yeast head had subsided but is bubbling like nothing I've seen before. Looking forward to this 1. How long are you planning on leaving it to age?

 

[Electrake]

Basically I'm going to age it to taste, however i intend on harvesting the yeast and moving forward with it to try different things

 

[Electrake]

Still positive pressure showing in the airlock, though I'd guess it to be more degassing than anything else. Pulled a sample, but didn't bother with gravity since it was at 1.000 last check.

May rack it onto some organic blackberry juice i acquired and set it aside for an undetermined amount of time.

 

[andrewf1985]

Yeah mines still bubbling quite a lot, as in bubbles in solution but seems to be slowly clearing out. No pelicile at the moment. Interested to see what the difference is on the second generation. Might be a bit impatient with 1 demi john to see how it tastes young too

 

[Electrake]

Second generation I will work to better control fermentation temperatures, probably leave it in a fermentor at my brewery. No pellicle is forming yet, I'm tempted to add more juice to it, something for the brett to eat up

 

[itwashambone]

I've been playing around with this with a low sg mead. Took a taste the other day (I know) like a month in and I was surprised that there was no sourness to it at all.

Would have expected a good deal more.

Any one else have that experience?

 

[Elodar]

Any updates on this one? I just started 3 gallons on fresh pressed apple juice a week ago. Pressed apples, added pectic enzyme. 24 hours later added 3 campden tablets. 30 hours later added the yeast. Then it took 48 hours to start fermenting. Then added 3/4 tsp Startup yeast nutrient. Curious how those ahead of me are turning out.

 

[andrewf1985]

I just bottles my first demi john a few weeks ago. Sampled a small drop, good flavour, slightly funky, not much sourness. Just waiting for it to carb up so i can give a proper evaluation. Topped the demi john up with more AJ and the fermentation had a funkier smell to it so hoping the 2nd gen gives a bit more

 

[Scrumpy!]

I used WLP616 to bottle condition 5 gal of wild fermented cider this year. The cider fermented over last winter, starting at 1.065 (great sugar year due to drought conditions) and finishing at 1.004 in July. I bottle conditioned it by adding 616, and 150 grams of dextrose then filled two cases of champagne bottles. The pressure reached 60 psi in six weeks. These bottles were stored upside down to collect the lees in the neck. Two weeks ago, I froze the necks, popped the crown caps and the pressure ejected the frozen lees. I added .5 g/l Splenda, 25 ppm sulfite, topped them up, then recapped them. I lost about 1.25 liters out of 20 liters in the process. The final bottle pressure is around 40 psi. The clarity is excellent and the bottles are free of sediment.

We killed a bottle last night. The 616 moved the rich flavor of my wild ferment a little towards the funky side so the resulting cider is very similar to the flavor of a cider from Normandy (just what I was looking for) though instead of the 4-5% alcohol of Norman cider this one comes in around 8%. Given another two or three months in the bottle I think this will be a very pleasing cider indeed since I enjoy a light barnyard element in the taste profile. I'll definitely do this again.

 

[ten80]

I used WLP616 to bottle condition 5 gal of wild fermented cider this year. ... filled two cases of champagne bottles. The pressure reached 60 psi in six weeks. ...

very similar to the flavor of a cider from Normandy...

I'll definitely do this again.

Awesome, glad to hear this worked well for you as I have one case of Normandy-esque "cidre brut" from last year waiting to be disgorged, dosed, and corked. Splenda-backsweetening is interesting as well, I may have to do some tests.

The idea of adding this yeast for bottle conditioning is very interesting, I may have to give it a shot for my next round of champagne-style cider.

 

[Scrumpy!]

I tried this bottle conditioning with a different yeast two years ago and proved to myself that it can really change the flavor of the finished cider.

This year I had 12 cases which had been fermented from the same blend of apples so when it came time to bottle, all were going to taste the same. I bottle conditioned eight cases with EC1118 (Champagne), two cases with WLP616 (Funky Cider Blend) and and two cases with WLP670 (American Farmhouse Blend). All three versions got the same 150 g dose of dextrose and 0.5g/l Splenda. All reached 4 atmospheres (60psi) in about two months. I have only tasted one bottle of each of the three types and only about two weeks after disgorging them so while the CO2 had re-equilibrated in the bottle, they were still not aged long enough for full final flavor development. That said, the 670 and the 616 taste similar with respect to the Brett funk. It is not strong enough yet for my wife to put her glass down (doesn't care for a strong barnyard flavor) but I know from years past that aging a few months will intensify the funk. I will probably try some new variations on this when I bottle my 2017 ciders next summer.

 

[madscientist451]

Thanks to all for posting results. I saw a vial of this at my LHBS but skipped buying it after reading the description. My cider always seems too tart as it is so I didn't want any additional tartness from the yeast.
I've basically given up on trying to improve cider with exotic yeast and instead am focused on obtaining better cider apples.
But its great to see what others are doing, I never thought of trying to change cider character by introducing a different yeast for bottle conditioning. I don't even bottle my cider, I suppose I should start.

 

[ten80]

I don't even bottle my cider, I suppose I should start.

bottle-conditioned cider ages very well, I have two year-old cider in bottles that tastes great and champagne-style cider is often aged for years in Normandy. Its a good way to preserve some of each batch for later, or in this case, add complexity to a batch.

 

[Wovensummers]

Two weeks ago, I froze the necks, popped the crown caps and the pressure ejected the frozen lees. I added .5 g/l Splenda, 25 ppm sulfite, topped them up, then recapped them.

Scrumpy- Can you explain this process ^^^ or direct me to another thread which explains?

Splenda-backsweetening is interesting as well, I may have to do some tests.

ten80- I use Splenda in most of my batches. It has worked out quite well. I add 1/4 to 1/2 tsp to each 12oz bottle. Hubby is diabetic, so I try not to add any more real sugar than necessary so he too can enjoy the cider.

 

[ten80]

Scrumpy- Can you explain this process ^^^ or direct me to another thread which explains?

Its call the "methode champegnoise" and is well-explained by Drew Beechum on this page