Will Vanilla mellow a bitter choco stout?

[Ryho]

Question about using Chocolate.
I have a Chocolate Stout fermenting now and Im worried its going to end up Dry or Bitter… Im going to add 3 oz cacao nibs to secondary to up the Chocolate content too. I was looking to have a rich/sweet chocolate taste and its smelling kinda like a Dry Stout. Would adding some vanilla extract with the cacao nibs in secondary give me that rich/sweet taste or should I have gone another route with the chocolate Im using, like using extract, powder, sugar???

Heres my recipe to get a better idea.

6lbs dark malt syrup
1 lb choco malt
.25 lb extra dark crystal
2oz cluster hops
wyeast 3068 (hoping for some banana in there!)

thanks for the help, Cheers!

 

[Roadie]

A little vanilla goes a LONG way so don't think that will be your savior. For sweet stouts lactose is your friend.

 

[giraffe]

I have no idea what a hefe yeast will do in a stout.

Vanilla wont mellow it out, it will just add another flavor. The hop bitterness and the roughness of the roast malts will mellow with age. If it is too rough, just let it sit 3 months, with the chocolate malt and the dark crystal, it should be able to age well. (and the hefe yeast flavor will fade somewhat, which in most cases is bad, but in this case, will probably be for the best.)

 

[eadavis80]

I've soaked my cocoa nibs in VANILLA vodka in the past with good results.

 

[joshesmusica]

to be clear have you tasted it? or does it just smell bitter?

 

[Ryho]

Just smelled it, its only in primary. But I do like the idea of soaking the nibs in vanilla vodka.

 

[Ryho]

A little vanilla goes a LONG way so don't think that will be your savior. For sweet stouts lactose is your friend.

Ill have to try adding lactose next time for sure, letcha know in a month when how this one ends up!

 

[joshesmusica]

how exactly does bitter smell? haha

i've just dry hopped some beer that i worried smelled sour. after doing my gravity reading, tasted it, turns out it tastes great.

point being. don't go off of smell. smells out of your primary are bound to be deceiving. go off of taste alone, and even that i would wait until fermentation (including clean up time for the yeast, aka 9-10 days) is finishing up.

 

[Ryho]

how exactly does bitter smell? haha

i've just dry hopped some beer that i worried smelled sour. after doing my gravity reading, tasted it, turns out it tastes great.

point being. don't go off of smell. smells out of your primary are bound to be deceiving. go off of taste alone, and even that i would wait until fermentation (including clean up time for the yeast, aka 9-10 days) is finishing up.

ya I hear ya. kinda early to judge it, just was really wondering if I was going to get sweet linger vs a dry finish. I had to throw on a blow off at 15 hrs and was getting the smells off of the reservoir I had the tube in. Not really the best way to judge though haha. So ill just let this do its thing and R-E-L-A-X

 

[feinbera]

While vanilla will not technically make any of the carbonized malt material responsible for rough, roasty flavors magically disappear, it does have a smooth, mellow flavor which will nudge the overall perception of the beer in the direction of smoothing out the rough edges a bit.

Now, that being said, with all that dark extract, my guess is that, after the yeast poops out, you'll still have plenty of residual sugars left, whose sweetness and body will also work towards smoothing out the overall perception of the beer. So, have a plan for adding vanilla, but don't put it into action until you've tasted a couple hydrometer samples and are sure you need it.

 

[JordanKnudson]

If you want to try some lactose, you can just add it along with your priming solution at bottling. It's not fermentable, so it won't create any problems with overcarbing.

 

[Ryho]

If you want to try some lactose, you can just add it along with your priming solution at bottling. It's not fermentable, so it won't create any problems with overcarbing.

I can add lactose before bottling?? How much would I add? This would make this a milk stout then right? I was lining up my next brew to have lactose in the recipe but if i can add it without it being in the boil then i might go that route.. hmmm

 

[JordanKnudson]

You can just boil it along with your priming solution (maybe with a little additional water so you don't make syrup, but this won't affect your beer). The yeast will eat up the priming sugar, but the lactose will remain unfermented. I'd go with a pound for a 5 gallon batch to add a bit of sweetness without overwhelming it.

 

[Ryho]

You can just boil it along with your priming solution (maybe with a little additional water so you don't make syrup, but this won't affect your beer). The yeast will eat up the priming sugar, but the lactose will remain unfermented. I'd go with a pound for a 5 gallon batch to add a bit of sweetness without overwhelming it.

Hey so just a thought, can I add the lactose when I switch over to secondary and add my nibs at the sasame time? That way itll have a little more time than just being in bottles to condition... or would adding the heated lactose funk the secondary process? Anybody?

 

[JordanKnudson]

You can add the lactose to secondary when you rack. However, make sure you cool it after you boil (same as with wort or priming solution). Otherwise, no problem.

Sorry if I didn't make that one thing clear -- don't add *hot* lactose solution to your beer; boil it to kill of any potential bacteria, cool it, then add it, regardless of which step of the process you're doing it (obviously had you done it in the boil, the same thing would have happened, just along with the wort).

 

[syd138]

"don't add *hot* lactose solution to your beer"

Why would you need to cool it? I did a porter a few months ago that was way to roasty so I added a pound of lactose to the secondary. How many ounces of water are you talking.. maybe 16-20oz? It will be instantly cooled off and not kill any yeast. No different than putting boiling hot water in with the priming sugar into the bottling bucket.

 

[JordanKnudson]

"don't add *hot* lactose solution to your beer"

Why would you need to cool it? I did a porter a few months ago that was way to roasty so I added a pound of lactose to the secondary. How many ounces of water are you talking.. maybe 16-20oz? It will be instantly cooled off and not kill any yeast. No different than putting boiling hot water in with the priming sugar into the bottling bucket.

Ah, this is a fair point. I guess I just make it common practice in my brewing to make sure any liquids that are added to one another at any point after the boil (i.e. yeast slurry to wort, priming solution to beer at bottling, etc) are the same temperature. Maybe I am being overly cautious, but since temperature control is such a big variable throughout the process, I don't like to add freshly boiled liquids to my ~68 degree beer. Perhaps it doesn't cause any problems (I don't know because I've actually just never done it that way), but it also doesn't create any issues to cool it down first either.

Okay, so OP, take my advice about that with a grain of salt -- it's my own practice to cool it first, but I suppose it's not everyone's. Still, if you have any doubts about adding hot liquid to your secondary, I'll say again -- it won't hurt to take the extra 5 minutes to cool it down first.

 

[syd138]

Ah, this is a fair point. I guess I just make it common practice in my brewing to make sure any liquids that are added to one another at any point after the boil (i.e. yeast slurry to wort, priming solution to beer at bottling, etc) are the same temperature. Maybe I am being overly cautious, but since temperature control is such a big variable throughout the process, I don't like to add freshly boiled liquids to my ~68 degree beer. Perhaps it doesn't cause any problems (I don't know because I've actually just never done it that way), but it also doesn't create any issues to cool it down first either.

Okay, so OP, take my advice about that with a grain of salt -- it's my own practice to cool it first, but I suppose it's not everyone's. Still, if you have any doubts about adding hot liquid to your secondary, I'll say again -- it won't hurt to take the extra 5 minutes to cool it down first.

Yeah.. I totally understand where you are coming from. I used to do the same thing and let it cool before putting it in the bucket. The only problem is that when you have sugar in water sitting out in the open like that, it is a prime target for bacteria.. especially in a kitchen.

I got a really really bad bacteria infection once doing that. Then I did some research here and got advice to just put it in the bottling bucket while it was still boiling hot. Haven't had a problem since.

 

[JordanKnudson]

Yeah.. I totally understand where you are coming from. I used to do the same thing and let it cool before putting it in the bucket. The only problem is that when you have sugar in water sitting out in the open like that, it is a prime target for bacteria.. especially in a kitchen.

I got a really really bad bacteria infection once doing that. Then I did some research here and got advice to just put it in the bottling bucket while it was still boiling hot. Haven't had a problem since.

I've never had an infection doing it this way, but I'm quite sure that the key lies in *how* I do it. I boil the priming solution (or lactose, or whatever the case may be) in a small saucepan with the lid on, then keep the lid on while I cool it in an ice bath. Then straight into the bucket/fermentor it goes. Risk of infection is essentially zero when you do it that way.

 

[Willy_Liverdye]

Unable to conform with directions I've brewed Vanilla Stout, Amber Clove Ale, Vanilla-Clove Amber Ale, Brown Maple Ale, Imperial Ginger Stout...Just bottled the IGS but it sure tasted good going in. My other deviations turned out very drinkable and the V-C Amber Ale...if I may borrow a phrase...Panty Droppin'!

And after 32 years of marriage...them's don't come off as easy as they use to.