When to worry about water chemistry?

[bennie1986]

I was wondering when I should worry about my water chemistry. Im sure there are some things that are essential for generally acceptable brewing water and others that are more geared toward achieving certain styles. Im not worried about getting a certain style at this point but want to get the basics down to remove negative flavors from the beer. So what should I concern myself with for just generally good water? Also, what effect will my charcoal filter have on the chemistry?

Here is what Im working with according to beersmith:

PH 7.5
(Following in PPM)
Calcium 35
Magnesium 15
Sodium 5
Sulfate 12
Chloride 1.5
Bicarbonate 130

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[mabrungard]

That is a decent water. However, it will require some form of treatment for some brews. Most particularly, pale beers. The amount of bicarbonate in that water is likely to cause problems for those pale beers and that will likely result in higher than desired pH and rougher flavor in those beers. A very simple acid addition could make a world of difference.

You have gone to the trouble of the first step: finding out what is in your water. The next step is simpler.

Take that step!

 

[bennie1986]

That is a decent water. However, it will require some form of treatment for some brews. Most particularly, pale beers. The amount of bicarbonate in that water is likely to cause problems for those pale beers and that will likely result in higher than desired pH and rougher flavor in those beers. A very simple acid addition could make a world of difference.

You have gone to the trouble of the first step: finding out what is in your water. The next step is simpler.

Take that step!

I brew mostly pales too lol! What would you suggest?

 

[bennie1986]

That is a decent water. However, it will require some form of treatment for some brews. Most particularly, pale beers. The amount of bicarbonate in that water is likely to cause problems for those pale beers and that will likely result in higher than desired pH and rougher flavor in those beers. A very simple acid addition could make a world of difference.

You have gone to the trouble of the first step: finding out what is in your water. The next step is simpler.

Take that step!

Most of my frustration with trying to correct my water profile is that I cant find a resource that helps me understand how to correct my water. I have been playing with the water calculators all morning but other than guessing what to add I don't have any understanding of the appropriate corrections to make.

 

[grathan]

Are you doing all-grain? I wouldn't bother otherwise except for chlorine removal.

 

[bennie1986]

I am doing AG

 

[mabrungard]

Are you doing all-grain? I wouldn't bother otherwise except for chlorine removal.

That sentiment is almost true. But excessive bicarbonate in the water used for dilution and steeping water can really screw up a batch...even extract brews.

AJ just mentioned this in another thread recently, and its very true for budding brewers...get the pH right and then anything else you do with the water is just 'seasoning'. A brewer does not need to worry too much about 'seasoning' aka: flavor ions (Mg, Na, SO4, and Cl) in most cases. The only time a brewer needs to worry about flavor ions is when the tap water has too much. But they do need to concern themselves with getting pH closer to the desired range. This single concern and correction IS the most profound improvement any brewer can make in their beers.

Extract brewers don't typically need to worry too much about adding flavor ions since the extract producer likely has some ions in that extract. So Grathan is correct. Its when you get proficient with water adjustments and understanding their effect that a brewer can and should start making those flavor ion adjustments to help create the flavor effects they are looking for in a beer.

In the case of the water shown above, neutralizing a good bit of that bicarbonate may be desirable for most brewing. That bicarbonate is only an asset when brewing or steeping a dark grist since that bicarbonate will help neutralize the higher quantity of acids from dark grains and crystal malts. A very simple acid addition is all it takes to correct water with excess bicarbonate. There are calculators such as Bru'n Water that provide the tools necessary to figure out acid additions instead of trying to guess acid additions and checking the result (hunt and peck). With information on the alkalinity or bicarbonate content, its an easy calculation for the acid addition. In the case of extract brewing, knocking that bicarbonate content down to less than 25 ppm is going to be helpful when brewing pale beers. In all-grain brewing, the interaction of the water and grist is an important consideration and that is where a program like Bru'n Water shines.

You are almost there.

 

[ajdelange]

Do what many pro's do. Dilute 3:1 with RO water to get that alkalinity down and supplement with the choride and sulfate salts of calcium to taste. You'll need some acid to overcome the alkalinity of your base malts but that's easily obtained from sauermalz. See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

 

[mabrungard]

While I agree that RO or distilled water dilution is a good alternative for correcting excessive bicarbonate content in the tap water. It is a much more costly and complicated alternative in the case of this water. All ions excepting bicarbonate are at relatively low concentration and the bicarbonate content is not very high. A simple acid addition easily trumps the purchase of RO water or machine and the required additions of minerals to restore ionic content.

AJ is still correct, dilution is applicable and appropriate. Its just not a requirement.

 

[bennie1986]

What kind of acid and where can I get it?

 

[mabrungard]

Lactic acid and phosphoric acid are commonly available from homebrewing shops in the US. The modest bicarbonate level in that tap water shouldn't really incur flavor effects from using lactic acid, so it is OK for you. If the bicarbonate content was in the 200 ppm plus range, then the phosphoric acid would be best so that the beer is not flavored from an acid like lactic acid.

Both of those acids are 'relatively' safe since they do not 'fume' like hydrochloric or sulfuric acids do.

Oh by the way, using lactic acid with this water will be preferred for brewing any German styles since it will impart the wort with lactate ion which may be that 'nuance' that those authentic German beers possess.

 

[bennie1986]

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[bennie1986]

Now I've read that the sparge water can extract tannins because of bicarbonates so should I treat all of my water is it enough to just treat the strike water? I use the stove and two pots for my sparge water because my setup won't allow me to have my sparge water on the burner.

 

[mchrispen]

Acidify your sparge water to just under 6.0. That should prevent the pH rising into the danger zone with tannins.

I use phosphoric because of the minimal flavor impact... You can get it at your LHBS.

 

[bennie1986]

Should I just find a way to do all my water at once?

 

[mchrispen]

The goal is to strike a proper mash pH and then to acidify your sparge. They are separate issues.

I would follow the Primer recommendations to hit mash pH, and then acidify the sparge water separately. Some will argue to not worry about the sparge, but you have some alkalinity. You really need a calibrated pH meter. Take good notes and observe what is going on in the mash - that is far more critical in my opinion.

As for a straightforward read to start the water chemistry adventure... Google Bru'n Water and read the Knowledge section through a couple of times. The Palmer and Kandinsky book on Water is a good read, and Martin and AJ here were involved in it.

 

[bennie1986]

Will do thanks again!

 

[cank]

The goal is to strike a proper mash pH and then to acidify your sparge. They are separate issues.

I would follow the Primer recommendations to hit mash pH, and then acidify the sparge water separately. Some will argue to not worry about the sparge, but you have some alkalinity. You really need a calibrated pH meter. Take good notes and observe what is going on in the mash - that is far more critical in my opinion.

As for a straightforward read to start the water chemistry adventure... Google Bru'n Water and read the Knowledge section through a couple of times. The Palmer and Kandinsky book on Water is a good read, and Martin and AJ here were involved in it.

+1

And read Matt's Bru'n Water Walkthough in his Sig. It helped me understand it.

 

[bennie1986]

Well I made the wateradjustments for ESB I brewed today and increased my efficiency 7%! My run off was amazing today as well so It must have benefitted also! With that and my adjustment to my mill I'm at 85% total efficiency!