When to pull dryhops

[Mothman]

I've got an IPA in primary, with a pile of dryhops in it. I used a large paint strainer bag to line the bucket and dryhopped into that, and will remove the bag before packaging.

Quick question... does anyone have any advice on how far in advance of racking I should remove that bag, to allow the trub and any hop debris that gets through, to properly settle?

I won't be cold crashing.

Would it be advised to remove it a good day or two ahead of racking (or longer?), or will that debris sink relatively fast, and only need a short time to settle out?

 

[TBC27]

If you’re not cold crashing, I would give yourself more than 1 or 2 days for the beer to drop “clear”. I cold crash and it takes about 1-2 days for the beer to drop “clear” using that method, which accelerates debris falling out of suspension. Will you be fining the beer in your keg? That could help too. Otherwise, I would recommend a longer time period or cold crashing. [emoji1303][emoji481]

 

[helibrewer]

I've got an IPA in primary, with a pile of dryhops in it. I used a large paint strainer bag to line the bucket and dryhopped into that, and will remove the bag before packaging.

Quick question... does anyone have any advice on how far in advance of racking I should remove that bag, to allow the trub and any hop debris that gets through, to properly settle?

I won't be cold crashing.

Would it be advised to remove it a good day or two ahead of racking (or longer?), or will that debris sink relatively fast, and only need a short time to settle out?

So the strainer bag has yeast/trub and dry hops? I would give it at least a week after pulling the bag if you are not crashing/fining.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Hops drop pretty quick. Yeast takes forever and will drop out when its good and ready if not cold crashing...at least a week depending on how long it hit FG. Why no cold crashing? Oxygen concerns?
Looks like your in Canada...stick it outside if you don't have the equipment to cold crash

 

[Mothman]

The beer is an attempt (my first) at an NEIPA-ish beer so I'm not concerned about clarity, that's why I wasn't considering cold crashing.

Having said that, I've actually only cold crashed (sort of... Wasn't as cold as typical crash temperatures I don't think. I don't have proper cooling equipment) one of my brews, it's just not something I'm really concerned about doing.

In this case I'm mostly concerned with hop debris (if any) that made it through the bag settling out, not as concerned with clarity in terms of yeast, I'm fine with some yeast falling out in the bottles.

I'm thinking a couple of days might be sufficient?

Or... Maybe I should just pull the hops in the next couple days (as of tomorrow, dry hops will have been in for 5 days, maybe that's long enough?? I asked in the thread for the recipe and got answers that pulling hops early vs leaving them in the whole time both work fine) and give it until the following weekend to settle more completely.

(Ps. I know NEIPA brews and bottles don't really play nicely together, but I wanted to try it, and it's just a 3 gallon batch so if it's tasty I'll just do my best to drink it fast... Tough job but someone's gotta do it)

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I don't like NEIPA's but I thought the haze was from the oats or wheat or whatever they use?
I wouldn't be purposely leaving yeast behind for a hazy look. That cant be right. Yeast in beer tastes nasty in an IPA of any kind. I know you say your ok with it settling out in the bottle but I'd just crash it and keep it out to begin with.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Not to mention if you bottle with a sh*t ton of yeast and trub floating around and it all settles out in the bottle your going to be losing beer every single beer. Crasing it out in the fermenter compacts it down to nothing and simply rack off the top..youll end up with more beer and wont have to worry about gingerly pouring a beer as to not stir up the sediment

 

[Mothman]

I don't like NEIPA's but I thought the haze was from the oats or wheat or whatever they use?
I wouldn't be purposely leaving yeast behind for a hazy look.

The haze is supposed to substantially be from proteins and from active fermentation reacting with dryhop additions.

And no, I didn't intend to say I wanted to achieve haze by leaving lots of yeast in suspension. I meant that, because I was aiming for a cloudy beer anyways, I didn't really care to achieve a brighter beer by cold crashing. And after being in the fridge that layer of trub has always tended to be pretty compact and easy to leave behind.

I'm pretty new to brewing, I think this was my 7th batch. But of those 7 batches I only attempted a cold crash once, and I didn't really notice any appreciable benefit, for me personally, when drinking the final product. Maybe I am easily pleased in terms of beer drinking, I don't know. lol I do know I've never ended up with an inordinate amount of trub on the bottom of the bottles, even without crashing.

That said, this batch was different in that I was rushing it. I actually just bottled yesterday, which was day 10, and I've never packaged a beer that quickly before. This one also seemed to have more fine, suspended, "stuff" in it when racking to the bottling bucket (whether it was yeast, or hop debris, or protein junk, I don't know). So I may regret my decision not to cold crash this one.

This particular batch hasn't really worked out properly anyways (saying that before drinking the final result), so I intend to try the recipe again in the future. This batch may inform me to definitely cold crash it next time.

 

[murphyslaw]

I would be concerned that opening your vessel and pulling out a hop bag will introduce a large amount of o2. I would leave the hops and rack when the gravity is stable.

 

[Mothman]

I had to remove the bag at some point to rack. (Bag was lining the entire bucket, not just a closed hop bag. I got that tip from someone here many months ago... I think it may have been JonnyRotten actually)

I guess I could have just lifted one side of the bag and racked.from under/beside the bag.

In any case it's done now and in bottles.

 

[BongoYodeler]

In any case it's done now and in bottles.

Please update after you try some!!

 

[Mothman]

I've set my anticipation low for this brew.

It smelled amazing while bottling, tons of peach and other fruit.

Last night, just because I was too curious to stop myself, I tried my little tester bottle,knowing it wouldn't be carbonated yet.

Pretty much all of the peach notes seem to be gone already, replaced by a more dank, grassy aroma, and the flavour seems to match the aroma.

On a positive note, the bitterness I was worried about has already mostly settled down, but I'm disappointed that the juicy aroma I had up to bottling, and that I was hoping I would taste, is already gone 4 days after bottling.

It also is not cloudy like it should be, but I already knew that would be the case (think I dry hopped a day late).

 

[Renegade Brewer]

Typically we practice and advise our customers to use a hop basket or hop bag when dry hopping. Honestly, most of the time we just introduce the hops directly to the fermenter for maximum surface area and simply rack the beer off the trub in a couple days. I’m sort of confused here; why not just toss your hops in and rack your beer into keg/bottling bucket leaving behind the trub? Your hops should drop to the bottom of the fermenter in a couple days making it easy to use your auto siphon to rest about an inch above the trub.

 

[Mothman]

I’m sort of confused here; why not just toss your hops in and rack your beer into keg/bottling bucket leaving behind the trub?

I have only ever done a couple brews previous with dry hopping.

The first time I tossed them in loose and I ended up having a hell of a time racking to the bottling bucket, as even at the end of primary the trub was extremely loose and I ended up leaving a lot of beer behind.

I considered hop bags, but I'm a little paranoid that I'll lose some effectiveness by bagging the hops (though I know many do it and report no problems... it's just me being paranoid).

It was suggested to me previously that a method to try is to use a large grain bag, sanitize it, gently line the bucket with it, and dry hop in that. The hops have close to free reign in the fermenting beer, but you can then later gently remove the gain bag and remove most of the hop debris.

So I did that on my 2nd dry hopped brew and it seemed to work ok.

I can't say whether it was very effective this time around or not. It did allow me to easily pull out the bulk of the debris from a large dry hop dosage. Whether or not it introduced an inordinate amount of O2, I couldn't say. The beer, thus far, is a disappointment, but I can't say it had anything to do with the dry hop method.

 

[Renegade Brewer]

So I’d start taking some notes and figure out what works best for you. It’s best if you can keep a bottle or two from each batch to do a blind taste. Brew the same recipe using your grain bag method, hop bags, then finally loose in the fermenter and see if you see any difference in the beer.

As for being a mess and loosing beer, welcome to brewing. If you put 5 gal into a fermenter expect to bottle 4-4.5 gallons. If you start with 5.5 or 6 gal you’ll end up right at your 5 gallon mark for heavily hopped beers.

Our house kits are 5 gallon recipes but they instruct the brewer to start with 7.5 gallons of water. We discourage any type of partial boil. At 7.5 gallons of water most people will be down to 6 when they go into the fermenter and be at 5 when they go into the bottling bucket. Our directions tell the brewer not to transfer to any type of secondary, use a 6.5 gallon fermenter with blow off tube for 3 days, and complete a full wort boil.

You may just have to adjust your kettle volume to get the volume you want when making heavily dry hopped beers. You could also change those dry hops to flameout and see if you like that.

 

[Mothman]

All good advice. I haven't done enough different brews yet to be able to fully predict my loss to trub when going from primary to bottling bucket, and how it will change with different beer styles/recipes.

Typically for me , with 3.5 gallon batches (3.5 gal into primary, I dump it all in, I don't leave anything behind in the kettle) I've found I am left with around 1/3 to 1/2 gallon loss when I transfer to the bottling bucket. I think that's reasonable loss.

The one time when the dry hop caused me racking problems, if I remember right , I ended up leaving a gallon or more behind, and that wasn't even an overly large dry hop dosage. That was enough to make me rethink dryhopping loose. lol

With this latest batch (the one this thread is about) I ended up on the high side of trub loss from primary to bottling bucket (about 1/2 gallon), even despite using the grain bag for the dry hops. I don't know what I would have left behind if those hops had been put in loose.

In this particular recipe (intended to be an NEIPA), I was rushing the time table, so the beer didn't have time to compact the trub.

 

[Renegade Brewer]

Yeah in normal beers we typically expect a gallon to be left behind in the fermenter. Also we try to leave a gallon behind in the kettle to keep the chill haze and astringent causing proteins to be omitted from the beer.

If 3.5 gallons is the most you can brew you might consider dropping to one gallon batches. Most of my 1 gallon customers start with 3 in the kettle and run off 1.5-2 in the fermenter.

The NEIPA is a heavily late hopped and dry hopped beer with little yo no boil hops. Ours has 2 pounds of hops for the whole recipe and comes in at 11 IBUs. I use a hop basket and hop bags to keep from creating a swamp in my fermenter, but I loose about 2 gallons in trub. My first dry hop addition is 6oz 12hrs after pitching, then another 6oz 2 days before transferring to the brite tank, then 4oz going into the brite tank in a hop Randal. The hops drink a lot of beer. It’s easy to figure out with a little time though. You’ll quickly learn how much you loose on average and factor that into creating your recipes

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Also we try to leave a gallon behind in the kettle to keep the chill haze and astringent causing proteins to be omitted from the beer.

Myself and others suck up every drop out of the BK into the fermenter with great results. Been doing it like that for a long time. Old school says chill fast to drop proteins. I haven't noticed any difference and get more beer easier. Everything settles out in the fermenter before making it to the keg
Are you saying my beers are more astringent then they should be?

 

[Renegade Brewer]

I’d have to judge them on a panel with a flight of like beers in order to accurately answer that question.

 

[BongoYodeler]

@Mothman As much as I like NEIPAs I've given up the idea of brewing another one until I move from bottling to kegging. My bottled NEIPA tasted like ass. I later brewed one with a friend who kegs, and we used a very similar recipe, but transferred under pressure limiting oxygen exposure. It was like night and day. Amazing flavor.

 

[Mothman]

If 3.5 gallons is the most you can brew you might consider dropping to one gallon batches. Most of my 1 gallon customers start with 3 in the kettle and run off 1.5-2 in the fermenter.

I guess this is a bit of an aside to the topic of this thread, but I found this comment to be a little out of place.

Given what we've discussed why would you suggest changing from 3.5 gallon batches to 1 gallon batches?

I do 3.5 gal batches because:

- I brew in the kitchen, and a pre-boil of around 4.5 gal allows my stove top to reach, and maintain, a good boil with relative ease
- the weight involved (water/wort and grain bill) is easy to manage, and doesn't cause me to fear over-stressing my glass-top stove
- and a big reason is the resulting 15-18 650ml bottles are a breeze to package, and with my drinking habits (I buy a lot of craft brews in addition to drinking my own) last me long enough, while not hanging around too long.

Re: the discussion about leaving behind break material in the kettle... I've tried pouring the chilled kettle contents through a grain bag 'filter' to catch a bunch of the crud, and it's proven to be a hassle and a mess... I've tried manually whirlpooling to allow me to rack from the side, and maybe I'm not doing it right, but I've never achieved a nice coned collection of debris to rack around... and I've tried just dumping it all into the fermenter, which is obviously the easiest of the options. lol And I've read enough posts by experienced folks here who are making awesome beer, who do the same, to be comfortable with this practice.

 

[Mothman]

@Mothman As much as I like NEIPAs I've given up the idea of brewing another one until I move from bottling to kegging. My bottled NEIPA tasted like ass. I later brewed one with a friend who kegs, and we used a very similar recipe, but transferred under pressure limiting oxygen exposure. It was like night and day. Amazing flavor.

Haha, I hear ya.

I've grown to really enjoy commercial NEIPA's, but research tells me that my chances of producing a winner with bottling is slim.

I decided to give this a shot though, just for fun, and for science.

While the majority of "NEIPA in bottles" discussions I've seen have said it's not a great experience, I have also come across a number of success stories, so I wanted to give it a shot.

I think this one was a fail (can't say for sure yet, only day 5 in bottles at this point, so needs a bit more time), but if it's drinkable, it's OK... and I don't mind a challenge, will likely try again. This batch was trying to kick my ass right from the start, with a crappy mash efficiency... I can't really walk away thinking it beat me.

In this case, my smaller batch size is a good thing, both to have less 'waste' if it doesn't work well, but also too allow quicker consumption if it does work out and I want to beat out bottle oxidation.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Haha, I hear ya.

I've grown to really enjoy commercial NEIPA's, but research tells me that my chances of producing a winner with bottling is slim.

I decided to give this a shot though, just for fun, and for science.

While the majority of "NEIPA in bottles" discussions I've seen have said it's not a great experience, I have also come across a number of success stories, so I wanted to give it a shot.

I think this one was a fail (can't say for sure yet, only day 5 in bottles at this point, so needs a bit more time), but if it's drinkable, it's OK... and I don't mind a challenge, will likely try again. This batch was trying to kick my ass right from the start, with a crappy mash efficiency... I can't really walk away thinking it beat me.

In this case, my smaller batch size is a good thing, both to have less 'waste' if it doesn't work well, but also too allow quicker consumption if it does work out and I want to beat out bottle oxidation.

I respect your determination and hope to some day soon read about your success. That may even prompt me to give it another go.

 

[Mothman]

Update, this brew may not be as far off as I feared.

I tried another, more carbonated,bottle tonight, and it was fairly enjoyable. It had a more fruit-forward aroma...not strong, but present... And decent flavour, decently balanced, still more bitter than intended,but not bad,and not overly dank like the first test bottle.

RDWHAHB may prevail.