When is to much hops just to much..IPA stuff.

[PissyFingers]

Ok i make 23L brews on my HERMS setup and i like my IPA style beers.

Here is a typical recipe i make... (i have grown to not like crystal in my IPAS)

6 KG 2 Row
1 KG Wheat
350 Grams Carapils

40Grams Columbus 60min

100grams Galaxy flame out whirl pool
50 grams Nelson flame out whirl pool

100 grams Galaxy 70 degree Celsius whirl pool
50 grams Nelson 70 degree Celsius whirl pool

100 grams Galaxy dry hop 5 days
100 grams Neslon dry hop 5 days.

WLP001 @ 19 degree celsius

I use Bru'n Water for all my water chemistry and do close system CO2
transfers into purged kegs, gas for 2 weeks and serve. I dont not fine my IPA style beers with anything, but cold crash before transfer for 48 hours @ 1 Degree celsius.

Can anyone see anything wrong with this procedure or recipe?
Im just not getting the tropical bright flavours im wanting, they are very
hoppy but not bright if that makes any sense?

Any feed back would be good, thanks!

 

[A2HB]

It's probably your water. What kind of water profile do you use?

 

[ong]

I don't see any reason you wouldn't be getting a load of hop aroma and flavor. That's a ton of whirlpool hops for the batch size. Are you sure these are hops that a) you like and b) will deliver something like what you're anticipating? Do you get similar results with Cascade, etc. (citrusy American C-hops)?

My only real suggestion would be to reserve some of that hop overload for keg hopping -- that's how I get a lot of really fresh hop aroma (I just leave the sack of hops in the keg until it kicks, although I'm sure many would prefer to remove it).

 

[MVKTR2]

There are so many ways to skin a cat (as the saying goes in the U.S.). For example Pliny the Elder is dry hopped for up to 17 days and HeadyTopper usually for 4 days yet they're considered great beers though treated vastly different on the back-end of the brewing process.

My guess points toward water somewhat also?

The change I'd consider would be to do as you're doing through fermentation. I'd ferment, chill to 1c, add gelatin to drop out all the yeast and particulates. Then transfer or don't and add your dry hops as you usually would and normal temps, then keg and crash again. I'm suggesting trying this as I notice a big difference in my hoppy beers when I fine/clear/gelatin prior to dry-hopping. The dropping yeast and particulates takes some of the hop punch with it.

Again, I second the water as your first source to adjust. I've just started building water this year and it makes such an amazing impact upon the finished beer and how it plays with bitterness, softness, maltiness, etc

Finally keep in mind that hops put on the homebrew market are usually leftovers, culled, or simply excess from the commercial market. Sometimes they're of excellent quality, other times they are rejects from the big boys. A lot of the Citra that winds up in homebrew stateside is rejected from a few of the bigger commercial outfits, Russian River for one (and I've heard Stone for another but that is unconfirmed internet rumor),. So, it may be you're dealing with inferior hops.

 

[hobomoto]

I'm currently drinking a very similar homebrew of mine and it is incredibly bright and tropical. Our recipes and process are very very similar as well.

75% 2-row
20% white wheat malt
5% Carapils
OG 1.071
FG 1.009
ABV 8.2%

Massive late additions, whirlpool and dry hopping of Nelson and Galaxy at a 50/50 split to the tune of 1lb to a 5 gal batch and 70 ibus.

Dry hop in primary and CO2 transfer to purged keg avoiding as much O2 as possible... very very bright and tropical, aromatic, etc. and very similar in recipe and process to your beer as you can see.

Very well could be water chem?? (which I havn't messed with yet since San Diego water seems to be good for ipas).

Not sure, but that beer should not be dull!

 

[Redlantern]

How long in the whirlpool?

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

If you already are adjusting your water then some of the major issues like residual alkalinity and mash pH are already taken care of. So I wouldn't say your water chemistry is an issue, unless your chloride is way higher than your sulfate(like way higher, I've done an IPA where my chloride and sulfate were dead even and still got bright fruity hop character).

From my experience and I've done what you did, an IPA that was basically just a bittering addition, then the rest of the hops all whirlpool/flameout. There's definitely something missing when you skip additions at 5 minutes or so. Yes you are volatilizing some oils by putting some of the hops in during the rolling boil but you definitely get something else. When I started doing additions at 5/3/1 for example it gave that blend of hop character.

All hops in the boil is just as one dimensional as all hops in the whirlpool.

 

[JonM]

I just did something very, very similar two days ago. No crystal in the mash, roughly 115 g hopstand at 200F for 30 minutes and another at 170F, and planning on a roughly 50 g dry hop. Your recipe looks good to me, but I'll second the concerns about your water mentioned above.

ETA: How long has it been in the bottle/keg? I find that, even with IPAs which are supposed to be consumed fresh, they get better with a little age - maybe a month after packaging. Maybe it's just green? And how were the hops stored? If they were from last year's harvest, stored in original flushed packaging, and stored in the freezer, they should be good. On the other hand, if they were in a sandwich bag at room temperature, that's another story ...

 

[PissyFingers]

Hi guys, thanks for all the responses, i do water on every brew i do and ph of my mash and sparge water. I just tapped another keg last night with a similar hop bill and it's tasting a lot better. I looked at my notes and on that batch i did do a ten minutes addition so maybe thats a part of getting a bit more hop complexity, im not sure.

Heres my water profile i used for the last batch.

Ca: 145 Mg: 27 Na: 15 Sulphate: 298 Cl: 55

Mash Ph 5.3

 

[MVKTR2]

Hi guys, thanks for all the responses, i do water on every brew i do and ph of my mash and sparge water. I just tapped another keg last night with a similar hop bill and it's tasting a lot better. I looked at my notes and on that batch i did do a ten minutes addition so maybe thats a part of getting a bit more hop complexity, im not sure.

Heres my water profile i used for the last batch.

Ca: 145 Mg: 27 Na: 15 Sulphate: 298 Cl: 55

Mash Ph 5.3

That is some fairly aggressive water, again I'm fairly new to water building but that is my understanding. For comparison here is a recent am. pale ale I did that was 80% pilsner malt & 20% munich malt in the grain bill and uses a total of 6 oz of hops with 5 oz hoped in at 5 & 1 minutes and a mere 1 oz dry hopping. It however is quite hoppy (I didn't want to over power the nuance of the grains), really enjoying it. My water for that brew looked like this:
Ca - 80.1

Mg - 0

Na - 28.9

Cl - 76.5

SO4 - 88.4

I built this water soft again looking for something different, softer bittering & allowing the malts to shine through but maintaining the juicy hop profile. Total success ... mmm gonna go pull a pint!

I realize it is a different approach from a much bigger IPA.

 

[Shade]

Heres my water profile i used for the last batch.

Ca: 145 Mg: 27 Na: 15 Sulphate: 298 Cl: 55

Mash Ph 5.3

That looks like relatively low mineral water with gypsum added which sounds spot on to me.

Wellington water mineral counts are next to nothing so I just add gypsum to mine based on bru'n recommendations. I have been pleased with the results, hoppiness standing out.