What's the nasty lube in my bayou classic ball valve?

[Tommydee]

So, my first brew in this pot I made an extract xmas ale kit. It's still young but has a bitter taste. I figured it's because I added some family secret spices to their gingerbread spice kit, and maybe the cloves made it bitter.. Kind of a soap taste.

My last brew, I flushed the valve during the boil to jet some high temp in there for sanitizing purposes, and noticed a little oil streak flaring in my flush cup. It had the same taste. I flushed some more, and went on. Beer tasted fine. Today, did same, and couldn't get it clear, tasted, and it sure seems like what gave my Xmas ale that bitter taste! To avoid risking my hefe, I dragged out the autosiphon, and kept the valve closed.

So, I ripped the valve apart, and sure enough there is some lube in the ball assembly that I doubt is food grade.

Any way to salvage this valve? Thinking of soaking in PBW and reassembling with keg lube in the ball. Anyone else have this issue? Maybe they figure you're just draining boiling water at the seafood bake? Annoyed.

 

[Sconnie12]

Does it smell like nasty oil? Where did you get it? Dish soap is good for cutting oils but I don't know about the beer. Is probably fine but if you can taste oil then I don't know....

 

[Tommydee]

It came with my bayou classic 10 gallon on Amazon...relatively popular kettle for inexpensive start to BIAB. I may send a complaint, of course I cleaned and flushed with PBWbefore using, but didn't think I needed to disassemble and strip with dawn. That's what I'll do tonight, and I guess just operate reliant on the teflon, unlubricated.

As for my Xmas ale, was planning on aging all year and giving out as gifts, but if that taste is there in 2 weeks, it will be uncapped and poured to drain

Got that extract kit as a gift, and it is a pricey one.

 

[augiedoggy]

In all fairness The xmas ale likely wouldnt be all that good as a gift come xmas time anyway if that was your plan... its certainly wouldnt be all that fresh.. if it needs to sit for 10 months to condition theres likely something wrong.

I didnt notice any lube in my bayou valves... was it white or clear? (or slightly brown from the xmas ale) if so it likely was foodgrade like keglube

 

[Tommydee]

You're probably right on the aging, but others have done this, it's a relatively big beer. Probably 4-6 months would be better. I'll probably just do a mad elf clone this summer!

I guess the pic makes it hard to see, but the lube looks and feels like keg lube, kind of translucent clear, slightly white. But it smells like soap/oil where keglube does not. I tried 3 flushes near end of cooldown into a glass...all three times, a little oil slick bloomed to top of glass, and upon taste test, I could smell it with glass to nose. After 3 tries, clearly the siphon was the better choice. I will go home, and taste some keg lube!

Thanks for replying, it helps to know your valve is functioning fine without lube, I will strip withDawn, ditch the beer next time I need bottles, and chalk it up as a lesson learned. I will also follow up with BC for awareness, but won't expect much...you get what you pay for.

 

[Stillraining]

Same here we have 4 of them 3- 16's and 1- 10 never had an issue even if there was some sort of lube shipped in them I always boil a new kettle full of water and dump it to season out and pull out any machining and or polishing oils...Never had a off flavor after doing that.

 

[kev211]

I have that same kettle. My first ball valve came completely rusted through, so I contacted Bayou and they sent me a new one... Which was loaded up with that lube. So I tossed it and bought a 3 piece. Wasnt gonna hassle with trying to get another new one. And frankly I prefer the 3 piece over the multiple single piece valves I have

 

[Tommydee]

Same here we have 4 of them 3- 16's and 1- 10 never had an issue even if there was some sort of lube shipped in them I always boil a new kettle full of water and dump it to season out and pull out any machining and or polishing oils...Never had a off flavor after doing that.

Now that I think about it, your procedure would involve continuous HOT passing of water....I pass kinda hot sink water with pbw, but not significant volumes...and since the off flavor is in my first brew with the pot, but not 2nd and 3rd (or not as perceptible), this is kind of making sense. I may end up buying a 3 piece, but now that My valve is already broken down Illl just clean, reassemble, and move on.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

3 Piece Ball Valves $10.95 at www.bargainfittings.com

That's the only answer I could think of. Lol! Never had a single issue with any item from his website.


(I am not affiliated with them. His prices are great, and his customer service is just as good!)

 

[augiedoggy]

I have that same kettle. My first ball valve came completely rusted through, so I contacted Bayou and they sent me a new one... Which was loaded up with that lube. So I tossed it and bought a 3 piece. Wasnt gonna hassle with trying to get another new one. And frankly I prefer the 3 piece over the multiple single piece valves I have

Maybe you can tell me how a 3 piece is better? From what I understand of them, instead of just having the threaded end to remove to clean it, on the three piece you have 4 nuts to remove to dissemble and clean right? So how is that easier or better?

I have a few of these and they work fine.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-NPT-Ful...373920?hash=item3d2c9b33e0:g:~hEAAOSw2xRYPjf1
I bought a few of the same valves at bargain fittings as well on clearance but I use mainly 3 way valves now..

honestly I think replacing them instead of just cleaning them is a little silly here though..

 

[augiedoggy]

I have that same kettle. My first ball valve came completely rusted through, so I contacted Bayou and they sent me a new one... Which was loaded up with that lube. So I tossed it and bought a 3 piece. Wasnt gonna hassle with trying to get another new one. And frankly I prefer the 3 piece over the multiple single piece valves I have

Rusted through? As in there was a hole eaten through it with rust? because thats what that statement means... or was there some surface rust? (even so 304 stainless shouldnt be rusty)

Strange that everyone's assumed this lube was harmful and not food grade even though is intentionally used on commercially sold food equipment..

Id just clean it off and be done with it. I wouldnt knowingly want it in my beer either but then again I use it in my kegs too so.....

You have to admit, theres such a dramatic difference in opinions here... You have some vendors like brausupply selling non foodgrade pond pumps with their systems and no one questions it because hes a "reputable" vendor... and others using regular steel based elements that rust in the boil kettles and leaded brass valves, yet others who toss out a stainless ballvalve because they use food grade lubricant in them to break them in.

 

[augiedoggy]

You're probably right on the aging, but others have done this, it's a relatively big beer. Probably 4-6 months would be better. I'll probably just do a mad elf clone this summer!

I guess the pic makes it hard to see, but the lube looks and feels like keg lube, kind of translucent clear, slightly white. But it smells like soap/oil where keglube does not. I tried 3 flushes near end of cooldown into a glass...all three times, a little oil slick bloomed to top of glass, and upon taste test, I could smell it with glass to nose. After 3 tries, clearly the siphon was the better choice. I will go home, and taste some keg lube!

Thanks for replying, it helps to know your valve is functioning fine without lube, I will strip withDawn, ditch the beer next time I need bottles, and chalk it up as a lesson learned. I will also follow up with BC for awareness, but won't expect much...you get what you pay for.

Id clean it with dishsoap and follow up with some PBW or the like and rince well... mineral spirits would work well to remove it as well.. now you made me curious to pull mine apart and look..

 

[kev211]

Maybe you can tell me how a 3 piece is better? From what I understand of them, instead of just having the threaded end to remove to clean it, on the three piece you have 4 nuts to remove to dissemble and clean right? So how is that easier or better?

I have a few of these and they work fine.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-NPT-Ful...373920?hash=item3d2c9b33e0:g:~hEAAOSw2xRYPjf1
I bought a few of the same valves at bargain fittings as well on clearance but I use mainly 3 way valves now..

honestly I think replacing them instead of just cleaning them is a little silly here though..

Rusted through? As in there was a hole eaten through it with rust? because thats what that statement means... or was there some surface rust? (even so 304 stainless shouldnt be rusty)

Strange that everyone's assumed this lube was harmful and not food grade even though is intentionally used on commercially sold food equipment..

Id just clean it off and be done with it. I wouldnt knowingly want it in my beer either but then again I use it in my kegs too so.....

You have to admit, theres such a dramatic difference in opinions here... You have some vendors like brausupply selling non foodgrade pond pumps with their systems and no one questions it because hes a "reputable" vendor... and others using regular steel based elements that rust in the boil kettles and leaded brass valves, yet others who toss out a stainless ballvalve because they use food grade lubricant in them to break them in.

No, rusted through as in, completely from front to back. I apologize for not wording it to your liking. I will try harder next time.

You mention about assuming in your post. About assuming that it was not food grade. Im sorry, but isnt that exactly what you are doing by assuming that it IS food grade?

As long as we are talking about assuming, where did I say that 3 piece was better? Or did you assume that? The OP asked for suggestions and I came and gave him a suggestion based on personal experience on which I said that I PREFERRED a 3 piece. No need to come in here and be a total dick about it

 

[k1ngl1ves]

No, rusted through as in, completely from front to back. I apologize for not wording it to your liking. I will try harder next time.

You mention about assuming in your post. About assuming that it was not food grade. Im sorry, but isnt that exactly what you are doing by assuming that it IS food grade?

As long as we are talking about assuming, where did I say that 3 piece was better? Or did you assume that? The OP asked for suggestions and I came and gave him a suggestion based on personal experience on which I said that I PREFERRED a 3 piece. No need to come in here and be a total dick about it

A three piece IS better, especially if piped on both sides. No need to remove everything to clean it. Take 4 bolts out, pull of the valve, clean, and reassemble. No playing around with the threads or retaping anything. Easy.

So yeah... I agree with you. It's better in every way. Lol!

 

[augiedoggy]

No, rusted through as in, completely from front to back. I apologize for not wording it to your liking. I will try harder next time.

You mention about assuming in your post. About assuming that it was not food grade. Im sorry, but isnt that exactly what you are doing by assuming that it IS food grade?

As long as we are talking about assuming, where did I say that 3 piece was better? Or did you assume that? The OP asked for suggestions and I came and gave him a suggestion based on personal experience on which I said that I PREFERRED a 3 piece. No need to come in here and be a total dick about it

I'm not not being a total dick about it I asked you if you could explain why everyone thinks a 3 piece is better... everythime I ask I have never gotten a response from anyone, (other than one person saying it looks cooler) I'm trying to figure out why people prefer tham is all... and when someone states something is "rusted through" it means it has a hole rusted clear thorough the phrase has nothing to do "with my liking" its about what it means vs what you used it to mean.. You dont have to take my word for it ask anyone in the automotive field.. a car body thats rusted through has always referred to one with hole through it to me..
Again trying to understand why you would describe it the way you did other than the fact that maybe you didnt know what you were saying or you were trying to exaggerate the nature of the rust. instead you ASSUMED I was trying to be a Dick.

and yeah I am ASSUMING the way more likely event that the kettles are made and sold to be foodsafe... just as I assume the chicken I bought from the grocery store is safe to eat... Do I have special testing equipment to verify this for myself to be sure? no... its an assumption based on the most likely outcome and trust and the odds that if it wasnt many others would have gotten sick from it and they would be shut down. the fact that its a white or clear grease also lends favor to my assuption that its foodsafe which is why that was the first thing I asked.

 

[augiedoggy]

A three piece IS better, especially if piped on both sides. No need to remove everything to clean it. Take 4 bolts out, pull of the valve, clean, and reassemble. No playing around with the threads or retaping anything. Easy.

So yeah... I agree with you. It's better in every way. Lol!

Ok so removing one threaded fitting and cleaning the one piece doesnt mean you have to pry out the pressed in teflon seals.. and theres no telfon tape involved in any of mine so im not sure where your coming from but if you were doing that every time or ASSUMING that then yeah I could see why you might see benefit in a 3 piece. ... Maybe yo know why is the ballvalve which breaks down to 3 pieces for cleaning (like pictured in this thread) is not called the 3 piece and the ones that requires breaking down into many more pieces IS called a 3 piece?

 

[kev211]

I'm not not being a total dick about it I asked you if you could explain why everyone thinks a 3 piece is better... everythime I ask I have never gotten a response from anyone, I'm trying to figure out why people prefer tham is all... and when someone states something is "rusted through" it means it has a hole rusted clear thorough the phrase has nothing to do "with my liking" its about what it means vs what you used it to mean.... again trying to understand why you would describe it incorrectly other than the fact that maybe you didnt know what you were saying or you were trying to exaggerate the nature of the rust.

No, rusted through as in from front to back. The whole inside of the ball lock assembly was rusted including the ball itself had pitting on most of the chrome (Im assuming its chrome plated here).

I find the 3 pieces easier to disassemble and reassemble. I have both 2 and 3 piece ball locks and the two piece ball locks usually take some finagling to get back together. My apologies for being rude, it your wording seemed like you were being overly aggressive and argumentative.

 

[augiedoggy]

No, rusted through as in from front to back. The whole inside of the ball lock assembly was rusted including the ball itself had pitting on most of the chrome (Im assuming its chrome plated here).

I find the 3 pieces easier to disassemble and reassemble. I have both 2 and 3 piece ball locks and the two piece ball locks usually take some finagling to get back together. My apologies for being rude, it your wording seemed like you were being overly aggressive and argumentative.

I can totally see that and I apologize... I get that a lot and its just lost in translation of text. I also apologize for the tone of my defensive post above.

 

[kev211]

I can totally see that and I apologize... I get that a lot and its just lost in translation of text. I also apologize for the tone of my defensive post above.

No worries man. Its all for the love of beer at the end of the day. And basically to sum up the 3 piece 2 piece bit. I dont think that the 3 piece ones are really that much better. They have their perks sure, but they do literally the same thing as a 2 piece. That being said, if Im going to replace a ball valve Im gonna replace it with a 3 piece for roughly the same price as a 2 piece.

 

[Bilsch]

Ball valves will have various amounts of cutting oil/coolant residues inside from thread cutting and cavity machining. It's easy enough to take them apart and scrub with soap and a bottle brush. Coolant does have a particular peculiar smell to it so you know when you have cleaned enough.

 

[augiedoggy]

Ball valves will have various amounts of cutting oil/coolant residues inside from thread cutting and cavity machining. It's easy enough to take them apart and scrub with soap and a bottle brush. Coolant does have a particular peculiar smell to it so you know when you have cleaned enough.

Now that I think about it I wouldnt be suprised these valves are sold with some sort of lubricant because out of all the ballvalves I own these are still the tightest and hardest to open and close.. that said mine have been plumbed into my setup and not opened in 4 years... I only use them on the hot side and routinely CIP with pbw while actuating the valves open and closed to flush out the area behind the ball so im not sure what I'll find

 

[Bilsch]

Ball valves with the teflon seals are designed to operate without lubricant so if there is some substance in there, it doesn't belong there. Residual cutting oils are very persistent and just flowing cleaning solutions through the valve won't remove it. PBW also won't touch it so you gotta get it apart and scrub with dish detergent. Otherwise your slowly cleaning it out with wort.

 

[Tommydee]

Thanks for all the passionate feedback. The valve is clean and disassembled with Dawn. It should be known that Dawn soap has been utilized in industrial setting to remove coolant, oil spills, etc, not to mention environmental cleanup. It is a perfectly fine 2 piece and the 304 SS is in great condition, so I will be reassembling and using. I don't have a TOC analyzer or A Mass Spec at home, so I just scrubbed a bit, and verified via smell and lack of greasy feel. If I were building a new kettle, I'd use the 3 piece, but this valve is fine. In full disclosure I did whack it with heat at the start, maybe this made the keg lube turn to something more petroleum smelling.

The contribution here is to, as part of your test boil on the bayou classics, collect first runnings in a cup, look and smell. It is very noticeable, particularly the smell.

If yes, disassemble valve, clean, and reassemble.

Don't do a cursory PBW flush and brew 3 batches before finding it it.

I'll report back here if the valve malfunctions with no lube.

 

[Bilsch]

The 3 piece valves seem to have a smoother action and are obviously better made. I prefer the 2 piece ones when mounting on the kettle nipples though as they are lighter and more compact. The quality of these things is hit or miss and out of 5 I bought so far, 3 were stiff. Switching the teflon seals between two of them loosened it up a bit and the last one got tossed on the scrap pile because there was no hope for saving it.

 

[augiedoggy]

I took a few of mine apart last night including one bayou valve and one newer 3 way valve Ive brewed 2 brews with... Neither had any noticeable lubricant left in them so its unknown if there ever was anything in mine to begin with.
I did notice that between these and the 2 piece TC valves on my conicals that there is a pretty big difference in construction between different manufacturers. I will add though that dispite this Ive had no leaks or problems with any of my "2 piece" valves which have gotten a lot of use over the last 4 years... My opinion here but I fail to see the need to dissassemble and clean the valves on the hot side when you can just run water through them immediately after use and pbw every couple brews as I do I pulled the ballvalve on my boil kettle apart for the first time yesterday in three years of using it and was pleasantly suprised at how clean it was inside. I will never understand the though process behind tearing apart all the weldless fitting and ballvalves on the hot side after every brew session and sanitizing them in starsan... To me thats more of an OCD thing or lack of knowledge on a homebrewers part as to what needs what and why it should be done. If someone has no way to cycle pbw through their setup or it doesnt make sense when a simple configuration I could see pulling them apart and cleaning the valves at least.

 

[Stillraining]

Mine will get disassembled when the recycles melt them down.......