What is this flavor? (English Ale)

[Trail]

I have a problem. I like a lot of beer, but when I visited England a number of years ago I had a beer and experienced a taste I'd never had before. The beer was a strong ale, the name and brewery of which unfortunately escape me... but man. Bitter, slightly fruity, an almost sour, woody aroma. It's there in the taste too, but I'm having trouble describing it any better there.

Since then I've tried a number of beers like that, most of which in the ESB -> Strong Ale spectrum. Most recent, and in my hands right now, is Adnams Southwold Bitter. I've seen it described on BeerAdvocate as having a "fig" flavor, which I guess I can kind of grok except I don't think I've ever tasted a damn fig except inside a fig newton.

To wit: do any of you guys know what the hell I'm talking about? What is that flavor? How would I go about recreating it in a homebrew?

This has been bothering me for years now and if I don't learn how to make ales like this it will break me.

Edit: Not to be weird or anything, but it also kind of smells like a lady. Sweaty, uh, but in a good way. I swear that's what it reminds me of and I'm not being stupid on purpose.

Edit edit: I also tasted/smelled this in Old Speckled Hen. And arguably in Theakston's Old Peculier, but in that case it's layered under a hell of a lot of other flavors.

Edit edit edit: I also get this flavor to a limited in Long Trail Double Bag. There it's broader, less sharp, and generally more integrated with the rest of the flavors. This is probably the first non-English beer with whatever-this-flavor-is.

 

[ong]

I wonder if it's just the English yeast profile you like? Fruity, sometimes a bit tart, fermented a bit warm? Maybe try a clone of an English beer you've liked, with a liquid yeast to style?

 

[Trail]

Adnams at least is kind of tricky because they use a proprietary yeast strain, which is two proprietary yeast strains. They also claim they dryhop with Fuggle, which... might be part of it. But yeah, it's a really indistinct fruity, sweaty smell that doesn't smell like fruit or sweat. Wow, I'm useless at describing this.

Maybe I'll look into a Speckled Hen clone. Feh.

 

[dannypo]

Both Old Speckled Hen and Old Peculier are hopped with Fuggles so that might be a place to start. To me Fuggles taste very earthy. Almost like mud.

When you said sour and woody in a strong ale I instantly thought of Old Suffolk. Its a strong old ale with a portion being a beer aged in oak barrels that are residence to brettanomyces and possibly other microorganisms.

 

[Trail]

I am a disciple of the Fuggle and I don't think that's it, but maybe I should SMaSH it and see what's the what. Maybe it's a matter of quantity.

I need to get me some Old Suffolk though. Damn that sounds nice.

 

[Trail]

Actually, after having some inspiration I looked up clone recipes for these beers I like... to a large extent I'm seeing a significant amount of Caramel 60l, to a lesser extent Chocolate Malt, and either Fuggle or Goldings hops. This is probably where I'll burn some R&D time once I brew my wife some coffee porter.

 

[EmeraldTab]

Its very likely the hop+yeast character, sure the caramel/crystal malts will provide some of the sweetness you're describing that translates into fruity when combined with the fruity estery characteristics of the yeast. I know when I have brewed using Cooper's yeast I always find a woody aroma/taste to the beer I made.

 

[Rideandbrew]

Have you experimented with sugars?I find unrefined sugar to give a rum-like
flavor.A lot of ESB's use invert sugar.

 

[alane1]

diacetyl maybe? Have you tried Greene King ales? Suffolk has a nice butterscotch/caramel flavor, is this what you mean?

 

[duboman]

"Edit: Not to be weird or anything, but it also kind of smells like a lady. Sweaty, uh, but in a good way. I swear that's what it reminds me of and I'm not being stupid on purpose."

Love me some sweaty in a good way lady!

 

[Trail]

Have you experimented with sugars?I find unrefined sugar to give a rum-like
flavor.A lot of ESB's use invert sugar.

Rum-like is definitely a part of what I'm tasting. The plot thickens - with Long Trail Double Bag having a warmer, more rounded version of the taste, I'm wondering if the complete package might involve:

1. Caramel and chocolate malts
2. Invert Sugar
3. A lot of late Fuggles
4. Maybe a specific yeast

Though there's a little diacetyl in most of the beers I've mentioned, I don't know that it's responsible.

 

[alane1]

If you can find it lyle's golden syrup and treacle will give you an authentic English flavor.

 

[rmyurick]

Just had the Adnams Suffolk Bitter (bottled, 4.2%abv) last night--so well balanced. I'd say a touch of chocolate malt, probably a bit of sugar--maybe 1/2 lb in 5 gallons (gives a bit of a cidery flavor). pretty dry, so I wouldn't overdo the crystal malt. Also, their website says they late hop with Fuggles--a bit of spiciness, I thought it might be Styrian. Definitely use an English yeast with some fruity esters. I like the 1469 WEst Yorkshire, but 1968 would also be good. 1028 would give you a drier, "woodier" beer, but probably great as well.