so I brewed a ris 4+ weeks ago, og 1.132 with projected fg of 1.035, well primary fermentation ended after 4 days using a huge starter of 007 and I held temps at 70deg so the yeast could finish up. Two weeks into it I took my first gravity reading and it’s at 1.054 so I figured I had a stalled fermentation. I then raised the temp to 74deg and tried rousing the yeast in hopes they’d get moving again. Another week and reading still at 1.054. So I added 1tsp of amylase enzyme mixed in 4oz of boiled and cooled water, another week later same fg reading. So figuring the amylase converted some of the remaining Starches into sugars I figured if I pitched in som wlp099 after making a 1L starter they’d devour the remaining sugars and gravity would drop. Welp 3 days into it and guess what, no movement still reading 1.054, no sign of a krausen and it only bubbles when I swirl the carboy with really fine bubbles coming from the bottom of the carboy, basically like if I just carbonated the beer so idk what the hell is going on. So it’s creating co2 but the gravity is not moving so did I just carbonate 5 gal of ris in the carboy? I plan on cold crashing this for 1 week than racking it to secondary and adding bourbon and oak cubes so I hope by cold crashing it’ll drop all the yeast out and prevent his from being “carbonated”. Any ideas on what the heck is going on here and how should I proceed.
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$100 the issue is lack of oxygen. It's ultra important to oxygenate when transferring to fermenter then re-oxygenate after 12hrs. Especially with a massive beer like that. I learned the hard way myself.
olotti
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I aerate the initial beer for 2 min with my stone then 12-18hrs later I aerate again for 60-90 sec. and it was recommended that when I pitch the starter of 099 NOT to aerate the beer with my stone since it would quickly oxidize the beer.
I had the same problem with my first RIS. It stalled around the same mark and couldn't get it to move. When performing the second oxygenation step, it is important you do it BEFORE you see a drop in gravity from what I've read. If you see a drop in gravity, don't perform the second oxygenation because that's where you could run into oxygenation issues. And yes, you're correct, do NOT oxygenate at this point. That would turn this to a dumper very quickly.
Unless you pitch some crazy high alcohol tolerant yeast, you're not going to get it to move at this point.
Your beer isn't creating CO2. There is CO2 suspended in the beer from the fermentation process. By swirling the carboy, you're releasing some of that CO2 from solution. It is not carbonated. You can proceed with transferring onto bourbon and oak cubes.
You can do whatever you want, but I would hold off on cold crashing just yet. I'd transfer to the bourbon and oak, achieve the flavor you want, THEN cold crash and package. You don't need to perform the cold crash until you're ready to package the final product.
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I oxygenate by going back and forth between buckets about 4 or 5 times getting a nice foam. The other thing I do is divide the wort in half between 2 buckets to have more head space.
Never had an oxygenation issue. The key is after 12hrs. Sounds like you did things right..
Your at 10.5% now which is above mid range 007. Probably use a high gravity specific yeast next time. My next RISs are using Wyeast Scottish Ale. Another suggestion is to brew a 1.100 gravity wort. Give the yeast time to acclimate to the wort then add dark DME to bump when reoxygenate. Also, nutrients are very important here.
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olotti
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I aerate the second time 12 hrs after pitching the yeast so primary fermentation has barely begun by this point. I do it just to pump the beer full of o2 so the yeast has enough o2 in there to do the job. I’ve mad this beer 5 times prior using the same process in brewing, aerating, etc and never had it stall especially this high.
Huh. 099 is a high alcohol tolerant yeast, up to 25% per white labs, I guess I just figured pitching the starter at high krausen it would just dive right in an get to work. Maybe I didn’t make a big enough starter, I only made a 1L startercjust to get the yeast active but maybe the beer sitting at 10.7% already is to high for such a small starter.
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007 isn't tho. I just did what you did with Champaign yeast on my stalled Safale 04 and nothing happened. Key: Don't drink and brew a 10.5% RIS thinking a 13% would be better using a yeast not designed for it!
Yeah, without the oxygen it's hard to get yeast going in an already high alcohol environment. I've heard of people using EC1118 champagne yeast to get it going again but not sure if that would work. Considering your amylase enzyme didn't work, I don't have high hopes for this either.
My opinion would be to leave it and put it on your bourbon and oak. My first RIS was really good even though the FG was high. I think you'll still be happy with the finished product.
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Another option is to brew a stout using a high flocc neutral yeast then blend.
Also with these beers I find a mash at 148-150 is a must. Anything higher and they just dont get as low as desired.
Also with these beers I find a mash at 148-150 is a must. Anything higher and they just dont get as low as desired.
olotti
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Yeah I think I reached 007 limits. I've used this yeast on prior batches that were in the 11-12% range but I guess going to 13 or trying to get there the yeast just crapped out. Next batch I'll prob mash a little lower and use wlp099 instead and prob throw in some yeast nutrient during fermentation and hopefully that'll work.
olotti
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Ok well I'll prob let it sit a week in hopes the yeast drop out a bit then transfer. I don't wanna use champaign yeast as I've read that can really bottom out the fg, but seeing as how nothing is moving this thing I think it's meant to be at 1.054.
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Another suggestion. My version of a starter is a 3.5gallon batch of a smaller stout. Guaranteed to get plenty of yeast along with something for your troubles. [emoji6]
deadwolfbones
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Another data point: I made a 1.121 stout recently and didn't do any other aeration besides the splashing that happened during the gravity transfer from the spigot of my Robobrew to my fermenter. Pitched rehydrated US-05 (2 packets) and it went down to 1.037 in ~10 days.
The issue might be O2, but I think it's more likely just a less fermentable wort.
The issue might be O2, but I think it's more likely just a less fermentable wort.
olotti
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I used 16lbs of base malt, marries otter, and 4lbs of Dme in the boil. The other 5lbs were made up of flaked oats, barley, choc malt, choc wheat, and small amounts of black patent and c120. The only diff between this beer and the last one that got down to 1.040 was 1lb more of Dme that’s it and I mashed at 155 instead of 154 otherwise every process was exactly the same.
Two thoughts: I don't really know about Amylase Enzyme and I may be wrong but I think I recall that it can be very slow to work, as in months and can take the gravity as low as champagne yeast, maybe even lower.
I would give it more time, taste it, then make a decision on steps. I might be fine as is.
I would give it more time, taste it, then make a decision on steps. I might be fine as is.
olotti
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I appreciate the thoughts and advice but at this point I think I’m done trying to get the fg down. Time to call it and move it to secondary for months of oak/bourbon aging. The taste of the gravity samples is really good it’s just gonna be a little thick, but maybe the oak and bourbon will help thin it out a bit or make the sweetness not as perceivable
olotti
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In regards to amylase I’ve read that too but I’ve also read that it should start to work within days so it should’ve moved a little by now. Prob is amylase just presents sugars to the yeast but if the yeast has crapped out none of the sugars get consumed that’s where I thought ok I’ll add in a starter of high abv tolerance yeast and that can eat the sugars available but I think that starter hit the basically 11% beer and there wasn’t enough yeast to get it going or they just hit the high alcohol and went no thanks we’re done and died off.
