West coast recipe/water help

[Br3w4u]

I am brewing a west coast IPA and have never made one with proper water adjustments before. Can someone tell me if this looks right because it just seems like a whole lot of mineral additions for what I am used to doing.
Recipe is....
7# Maris Otter
7# 2 row
8 oz. C20
4 oz. Honey malt
4 oz. Cara Pils
8 oz. Corn sugar
.25 oz each Simcoe, Cascade, Azacca at 60 min., 30 min, and 10 min. 2 oz Azacca in the whirlpool. 1 oz Simcoe, Cascade, Azacca dry hop. Might use Wyeast west coast if LHBS has it or maybe 1056 not sure yet.

This will be a 5 gallon batch using all RO water and brewers friend is estimating I will need about 9 gallons to start for mash and sparge. I’m not even sure if I am using the right water profile but no matter how much I keep increasing my mineral additions I can’t seem to get the numbers to line up. 6 grams of Epsom really seems like a lot to me but when I increase the gypsum my calcium goes up too high. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Yooper]

First, you're right- that water is highly mineralized. It is a profile for Dortmunder- which I wouldn't really want to use even for a Dortmunder but definitely not for an IPA.

If you want to target a profile, please at least use an IPA or pale ale profile. My preference is to be much more modest, and do 50-100 ppm of calcium, 0 or so magnesium, 50 ppm or less of chloride and about 135-150 ppm of sulfate and target a mash pH of 5.4.

 

[Br3w4u]

First, you're right- that water is highly mineralized. It is a profile for Dortmunder- which I wouldn't really want to use even for a Dortmunder but definitely not for an IPA.

If you want to target a profile, please at least use an IPA or pale ale profile. My preference is to be much more modest, and do 50-100 ppm of calcium, 0 or so magnesium, 50 ppm or less of chloride and about 135-150 ppm of sulfate and target a mash pH of 5.4.

Ok thanks. Brewers friend didn’t specifically have a profile for IPA and when I searched the HBT forums I saw a lot of people using a sulfate addition of around 300 and 150 for chloride so the dortmunder seemed to be closest to that. I usually use 150 sulfate and 150 chloride for my NEIPA which I have made a lot of lately. This will be for a competition though so I wanted to go with a more traditional style.

 

[Yooper]

The chloride is way too high for a west coast IPA, and calcium of 50-100 ppm is great. Some brewers like the dryness provide by a very high sulfate of 300 ppm. I have one recipe where I like that much sulfate, but I find that a more modest amount of 150 ppm or so in new recipes is best to avoid a very harsh bitterness if I'm not sure if a very large amount is needed.

With the maris otter, you aren't really making a traditional west coast IPA, but it could be very good with it.

 

[Br3w4u]

The chloride is way too high for a west coast IPA, and calcium of 50-100 ppm is great. Some brewers like the dryness provide by a very high sulfate of 300 ppm. I have one recipe where I like that much sulfate, but I find that a more modest amount of 150 ppm or so in new recipes is best to avoid a very harsh bitterness if I'm not sure if a very large amount is needed.

With the maris otter, you aren't really making a traditional west coast IPA, but it could be very good with it.

I want to dry it out and thought the Maris otter would give it a nice malty backbone without being too distracting from the hops. Do you think I will get dinged at the competition if I do this?

 

[Yooper]

I want to dry it out and thought the Maris otter would give it a nice malty backbone without being too distracting from the hops. Do you think I will get dinged at the competition if I do this?

Maybe, maybe not. I sometimes will use a little aromatic or Munich malt in mine to give a firmer malt tone, but if it's "bready", it really isn't so much west coast, and with the honey malt it may have a wee note of sweetness. BUT it sounds like a good beer, and you should make what you like. If you're brewing strictly for competition though, I'd definitely stick closer to the style guidelines.

 

[mabrungard]

Definitely not a Dortmund profile. Too much chloride in combination with the high sulfate content is the recipe for Minerally.

I recommend you consult the Pale Ale profile in Bru'n Water to get an idea of what works well for West Coast IPAs. I enjoy the Pale Ale profile, but some may want to dial back the sulfate a bit. I wouldn't go any lower than 200 ppm sulfate in any case.

 

[Br3w4u]

Definitely not a Dortmund profile. Too much chloride in combination with the high sulfate content is the recipe for Minerally.

I recommend you consult the Pale Ale profile in Bru'n Water to get an idea of what works well for West Coast IPAs. I enjoy the Pale Ale profile, but some may want to dial back the sulfate a bit. I wouldn't go any lower than 200 ppm sulfate in any case.

I still can’t figure out Bru’n water sorry. I gave up on it a while back.

 

[mabrungard]

I still can’t figure out Bru’n water sorry. I gave up on it a while back.

Let me guess, you didn't bother reading through the directions? Its actually very easy once you understand what you need to do. Reading the instructions is an integral part of that.

 

[Br3w4u]

Let me guess, you didn't bother reading through the directions? Its actually very easy once you understand what you need to do. Reading the instructions is an integral part of that.

I have read the instructions several times. I just can’t get it to do what I need it to do. Has anyone ever told you that you are just great with customer service? I swear this is at least the 3rd time that you have told me to read the instructions.

 

[Br3w4u]

Maybe, maybe not. I sometimes will use a little aromatic or Munich malt in mine to give a firmer malt tone, but if it's "bready", it really isn't so much west coast, and with the honey malt it may have a wee note of sweetness. BUT it sounds like a good beer, and you should make what you like. If you're brewing strictly for competition though, I'd definitely stick closer to the style guidelines.

I guess I should not call it a west coast IPA and enter it as a standard American IPA.

 

[CodeSection]

@Br3w4u, I too, had problems figuring out the free version of Brun Water. I was thinking it was only me. I will try reading the instructions again this weekend.

I did read that there was an update to the free version on another thread here since someone discovered the cells would not calculate correctly and showed errors when one eliminated the starting ingredient. Perhaps that was my problem too...

 

[Br3w4u]

@Br3w4u, I too, had problems figuring out the free version of Brun Water. I was thinking it was only me. I will try reading the instructions again this weekend.

I did read that there was an update to the free version on another thread here since someone discovered the cells would not calculate correctly and showed errors when one eliminated the starting ingredient. Perhaps that was my problem too...

Well I am glad to know that I am not the only person who @mabrungard will consider as mentally challenged hahaha. I am just not very tech savvy and the spreadsheet is too complicated. It takes the fun out of brewing for me when I have to sit at a desk for an hour trying to plug info into a spreadsheet when I don’t know what the heck I am doing. I mostly still refer to books and write out my recipes by hand. I just got a membership to brewers friend this week because I guess like me it is simple.

 

[CodeSection]

...I am just not very tech savvy and the spreadsheet is too complicated...I just got a membership to brewers friend this week because I guess like me it is simple.

I have been using Brewer's Friend water chemistry calculator as well and find it easy to use. I will try Brun Water free version again, since there has been an update, to compare it with Brewer's Friend. I am still too new to this so it is possible with the Brun Water revision, I will get results and not be frustrated. I was planning on buying his paid for version, but if I cannot understand the free version, I just may stay with Brewer's Friend.

Best of luck!

 

[Br3w4u]

I tasted a sample of this last night and it tastes really good but more along the lines of a NEIPA. Super tropical fruit and pretty sweet but not cloying or under attenuated sweet. I guess the honey malt may have been too much. I also ran out of gypsum on my brew day and was almost 2 grams short. Should I add gypsum when I add my gelatine or leave it alone? Also would it be a bad idea to add another 1/4 to 1/2 cup of corn sugar at this point to try drying it out more?