Vintners Harvest Fruit Purée

[schmeek]

I'm trying to make a blackberry melomel in the style of B Nektars "Black Fang" which is only 6% ABV. I'm trying to make enough to get a full 3 gal carboy for aging, this will probably be my aging vessel AFTER secondary conditioning with the Vintners Harvest Blackberry purée. I have 5 pounds of orange blossom honey from central FL, so if I add that to 3 gallons of water I am anticipating an OG around 1.050 which should get me in the ballpark of 6%.
My questions are regarding the purée, if I add it to my secondary, should I add sorbate first? I realize if I do not it will ferment out, but would it have the same effect as adding it to the primary? If I'm looking for a med-strong blackberry flavor should I sorbate first? Its a smaller can, 3lbs I believe. Does anyone have any experience adding the purées to a lower gravity mead? I also have a couple lbs of frozen blackberries I was thinking of adding at some point to give it more depth of flavor. Any suggestions? And lastly, black fang has clover and orange peel added to it, any input on when I should add those and for how long? Thanks!

 

[icanbenchurcat]

I'm a beer brewer, but interested in this thread...

The purée/fresh berries will ferment out until the yeast gives up... Somewhere around 9-15% depending on the yeast.

Potassium sorbate doesn't work as well without potassium meta bisulfite if you are trying to stop the fermentation.

My recommendation is put the orange peel/clover in with the boil (if there is one?) and dump it into primary. Rack onto the fruit/purée in secondary. If you want sweetness, rack again THEN add k-meta and k-sorbate and sweeten to taste. Maybe some acid blend (or I use citric acid) to taste, if needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[schmeek]

I have campden tabs so I will add that with the sorbate when the time comes. (Thanks for the reminder) I think I will wait until 2/3 fermentation and rack it onto the purée. After a few months I will probably sorbate/sulfite and rack onto the frozen berries for some fresh flavor. I wish someone with experience using the purée would chime in on this

 

[PLOVE]

My understanding is that the puree is just whole fruit that has been heat pasturized and canned. I mention this since the source of vintners harvest is in the town (actually unincorporated) of Colton, OR - where I live. I know the dudes who basically have the exclusive rights to VH canning - good guys. They basically buy whole fruit, heat pasturize, and hand can every batch.

So, I would treat the canned stuff pretty much as you would frozen/macerated whole fruit.

Hope this helps.
P

 

[Arpolis]

I have not used the blackberry but have used the raspberry from vintners harvest. I used one 3.3 lb can in primary and two in secondary in a 3 gallon batch. The way I see it 1lb of fresh fruit is equal to 1.5lb purée. So I was shooting for 5lb per gallon of fresh fruit equivalent. The raspberry aroma and flavor was to die for. Hope that helps.

 

[schmeek]

Wow 3 cans total!? At $20 per can that sounds quite expensive. I didn't realize the ratio favored fresh fruit. I was assuming the purée was more concentrated than the fruit itself

 

[fatbloke]

Its always gonna depend on what you're aiming for, as well as the fruit type......

Flash pasturisation or any heat process can change the flavour. Some fruit benefits from that IMO some not so.......

Blue/Black fruit seems fine whereas green/white fruit not.

Pureed fruit can also be a major pain at racking and can need you to add a straining stage which can (depending on how its done and with what kit) increase the potential for oxidative damage.

Whole fruit will often break down some but it does seem easier to work with.....

 

[schmeek]

I read in Schramm's book that using a muslin bag on both ends of a siphon work well In filtering out particles of fruit. I'll probly try that instead of putting the fruit itself in a bag. Still not sure when to add the orange peel. Clove I figure secondary or later but I feel like orange peel needs some heat to extract the flavor.

 

[Arpolis]

Wow 3 cans total!? At $20 per can that sounds quite expensive. I didn't realize the ratio favored fresh fruit. I was assuming the purée was more concentrated than the fruit itself

Oh oops I got the ratio backwards. Sorry that was late for me and I was tired. So yes 1.5lb fresh fruit to 1lb purée. Sorry.

 

[schmeek]

Ok cool, that makes more sense. So basically, this can of purée is like 6.5lbs of blackberries. Schramm says in his book 8lbs+ Of raspberries in a 5 gallon batch of mead will give you a strong fruit character. I can't believe you added a can per gallon! Also keep in mind I'm shooting for a low abv so i think I'm going to add it to the primary and if I need more flavor I will add the frozen blackberries to secondary with less risk of infection. I'm thinking about throwing the frozen fruit in a small amount of water and bringing it to 160F for 10 min to pasteurize. Would that be necessary at 6-7% abv?

 

[Arpolis]

I don't like heat pasteurizing because that can alter fruit flavor and more importantly set any pectin which causes a haze. That is a low ABV so if worried about infection then add 1 crushed Camden tablet per gallon each time you rack or add fruit. That will help keep an infection off and also help prevent oxidization.

 

[IslandLizard]

This is good information I was looking for too. There's very little in the vendor's descriptions or on the can labels themselves.

While we're on topic, does anyone know what the product difference is between the large 96oz wine base cans and the 49oz fruit puree cans by Vintner's Harvest ? There's a lot larger fruit selection in the wine base cans.

Was Oregon Fruit absorbed into Vintner's Harvest or did it just cease business? Many recipes call for cans of Orgegon Fruit. When reading the few descriptions I've found, Oregon Fruit cans have/had heavy syrup (sugar) added, the Vintner's Harvest ones do not, they only contain fruit in it's own juice, so that's way better.

 

[schmeek]

My LHBS told me there isn't much of a difference other than that the wine bases tend to be more chunks of fruit vs purée. It's my understanding VH is a company operated under Oregon fruit. If you go to Oregons website I was surprised to see so much information regarding homebrewing. I agree, I looked at some of the Oregon fruit cans from Walmart and most of them were in some kind of syrup, except for the tart cherry which was in water.
@Arpolis, what and when do I add the Campden tab to? The mead first, then rack onto fruit? LHBS said to add to fruit for 24 hrs before use... But I assume I would need some water mixed in...which I don't want to water down my already low gravity mead

 

[Arpolis]

It depends on your method. If adding to the mead most yeasts can handle Camden tablet introduction during fermentation but even if it does not stall it may cause stresses on the yeast that cause off flavors.

You can add the Camden tablet to just enough water to cover fruit and mix it a couple times in 24 hours and the Camden will gas off in that time. Then you can pitch the whole bit into your newly racked mead.

But if you do that then any O2 protection that you want while racking is not gained.

What I do is let primary go long enough to where there is no active fermentation going and the mead is clearing. So I add the Camden to the new carboy dissolved in a little water and rack into it. If I want to stabilize and it not ferment anymore I also add sorbate at this time. If adding sorbate then do not add new fermentables for 24 hours. Otherwise if yeast is at max ABV limit or you are fine with fermentation picking back up the add the fruit or whatever at racking with Camden and no sorbate.

 

[ColeVet67]

just a lil info here. I made a blackberry/blueberry melomel 5 gal 1- 3.3 lb can vintners each + 15 lbs of honey. D-47 is what i used.. and it will EASILY get you to 12-14. I had mine at 14.5% with in a week - week 1/2.
After fermentation there was virtually NO nose or taste of fruit. All blew out the airlock. Now, i have come to understand, you need ~5 lbs per gal of fruit (whole/fresh) to get any flavor.. etc.. i topped off with pasturized juices and some dissolved honey to get some flavor back into it. PLUS, i added 2 oz of oak chunks to give it more body. I would say... if you want a 6% finished product, this is what i would do:

make a 3 gal batch @ 12-14%, then let it finish completely, .997 ish, then sorbate/sulfite, then wait several days, slipt that 3 gal batch to (2) 1.5 gal batches and add juice to taste. this would: dilute your 12-14% down to 6 gals of 6%. (make sense...?)

If the oak interests you.. i did 2 oz, french and hungarian chunks (not chips) for 5 weeks. and the oak is nice, not strong.. but pleasantly noticiable. for 3 gals, you might wanna take that down to 1-1.25 oz

its been in a tertiary (spell..?) for nearly.. 8 months now.. just waitin on bottles.

just my .02

 

[Arpolis]

That backs up my batch on the amount of purée. Three 3.3lb cans of purée is nearly 10lb and at my estimated ratio of 1lb purée being close to 1.5lb fresh fruit makes my addition equal to 15lb fresh fruit.

 

[ColeVet67]

yep, i after adding the 2 cans, i was up to 7 lbs of puree. But unfortunatly it blows right out the airlock.

 

[gatorforty]

Hey Schmeek, how did this turn out? I am going to be doing something similar this weekend.

Can you share your experience / recipe / process that you eventually followed?

Thanks!

Ron

 

[schmeek]

5# OB honey, 5# blackberries in the primary with 3 gal water and a bottle of cherry juice I got from trader joes. Lalvin 71B. Transferred to secondary with the big can of blackberry purée and let that sit for 2 months and transferred to another vessel with a touch of Tupelo that I had left over and a few cloves. I sampled it at that point and it was tasting pretty good but I was a bit short of 3 gallons and had a decent amount of headspace in the carboy which I feel may have led to the way it tastes now. I ended up moving to orlando (~230 miles) and tried to leave it in the carboy for the move and that just destroyed it. I went to bottle it recently and it smells like cherry NyQuil and tastes even worse. I'm not sure what went wrong but it is about to go down the drain I just haven't had the heart to do it yet. At least my mango Tupelo mel #2 batch came out great! I wish I could be more help, the recipe was there I just couldn't give it the attention it needed with all the BS we had to go thru with selling the house and moving by ourselves. Hope you have better luck.

 

[IslandLizard]

Sorry to hear that batch got ruined, damn!

Transportation (shaking) will speed up the oxidation process significantly.

Do you think oxidation from leftover air in the headspace caused it to taste like cold/flu medicine, or could it have been something else? Most "juices" are artificially flavored and leave an astringent, plasticy, or medicinal aftertaste. Southern Tier's 2XMas Christmas ale tastes way worse than NyQuil or Vicks 44D. It's one of the most horrendous beer I've ever had, yet they seem to sell tons of it.

If it just had to sit there aging away I would have flushed that headspace with CO2, after racking, or found a way to fill it to the top minus an inch.

 

[schmeek]

I suppose either theory is possible. It was 100% tart cherry juice and I had recommendations from other mead makers that the trader joes juice is safe to use. And it's not like I threw the carboy in the back of the moving truck, I had it cushioned in a box in my car. I really do believe it had to do with the headspace.

 

[noblesquirrel]

I suppose either theory is possible. It was 100% tart cherry juice and I had recommendations from other mead makers that the trader joes juice is safe to use. And it's not like I threw the carboy in the back of the moving truck, I had it cushioned in a box in my car. I really do believe it had to do with the headspace.

I wouldn't dump it. Things can happen and can turn magical. Why dump it? Unless it's totally phenolic and beyond revolting...

 

[MindenMan]

I vote for waiting. There are home brews that are almost nasty today, and six months from now are almost wow. I have some high proof cider that even after a year, albeit pretty nice, could lay down a little longer. I don't know if it will ever be amazing, But I do have hope.

 

[9mmruger]

It could always be blended into another batch as well. Why waste it?