Using saved yeast slurry to bottle... How much?

[zandrsn]

Hi all, I'll be making 3 gallons of all-grain Belgian Dark Strong (similar to a Rochefort or Westvleteren) this weekend (1.090 OG) and am planning on using the same yeast (Wyeast 1762) to bottle with, after aging a bit. I'm planning on washing the yeast after primary and then keeping it in a starter until I need it for bottling, at which point I'll decant off the liquid and add some to my bottling bucket along with my priming sugar.

My question is this: Does anyone know how much weight or volume of yeast sludge I should use per gallon/liter of beer? I tried using the Mr Malty calculator to figure that out, but was a little confused about the results.

I've heard some folks say that you should use half a tube of White Labs for bottling, but I'm not sure how that translates when using saved yeast.

One other question I have is this: When I was stepping up my started today I ran out of DME. I know it is a bad idea to use only table sugar to make starters, but as my wort will be around 15% candi syrup I felt like it would be alright to add some sugar to my starter to get it a bit closer to the OG I am hoping to hit with my wort. Was that a mistake? I ended up with about a 70:30 DME:Sugar. I hope not, but having a bigger starter OG outweighed the downsides of supplementing with sugar in my mind, though I was worried since the sugar percentage in the starter is about twice as much as the wort will be.

Thanks for your help!

 

[niquejim]

Why do you feel the need to add new yeast?

 

[Phunhog]

I don't think it is a bad idea to add more yeast for a beer like you are describing. It's going to be a high alcohol beer so the yeast will be stressed after the initial fermentation, not to mention that is the authentic Belgian style of bottle conditioning. You don't have to use the same yeast though. Any neutral ale yeast will work..i.e. Chico strain. You are only getting carbonation out of it...not flavor.
As far as using sugar/candi syrup for your starter. It might not be ideal but I am sure it will work great.

 

[zandrsn]

Yeah, what Phunhog said. Basically I get the impression that with these high gravity Belgian styles it is common practice to reyeast with the same yeast you fermented with in order to ensure carbonation. It is what all of the Trappist Abbeys do.

 

[zachattack]

I've been waiting 6 months for my BDS to carb up. I wish I added yeast at bottling!

 

[niquejim]

If you don't age for more than several(3 1/2+) months there should be no need to add new yeast. The yeast isn't that weak or beer never would have become as popular as it has

 

[zachattack]

If you don't age for more than several(3 1/2+) months there should be no need to add new yeast. The yeast isn't that weak or beer never would have become as popular as it has

With a higher gravity beer it can really speed things up. Most (maybe all?) Commercial trappist-style breweries dose the bottles with fresh yeast.

 

[Phunhog]

If you don't age for more than several(3 1/2+) months there should be no need to add new yeast. The yeast isn't that weak or beer never would have become as popular as it has

That's true...but we are talking about 8-10% beers that are meant to age. The way I see it is you are brewing a traditional Belgian beer...so why not bottle/carb it the traditional way.
As a side note....this thread made me go back and re-read parts of Brew Like a Monk by Stan Hieronymus. He recommends adding yeast to bottle condition big Belgian beers. That's good enough for me....

 

[zachattack]

That's true...but we are talking about 8-10% beers that are meant to age. The way I see it is you are brewing a traditional Belgian beer...so why not bottle/carb it the traditional way.
As a side note....this thread made me go back and re-read parts of Brew Like a Monk by Stan Hieronymus. He recommends adding yeast to bottle condition big Belgian beers. That's good enough for me....

He even gives the exact amounts of yeast that the different breweries inject on the bottling line. Something like # of millions of cells/mL of beer. I love that book.