Unsolved off-taste mystery...please help!

[EvilBrewer]

Every time I use 1056/001 yeast to brew IPA's or APA's, I have bad results. And it's always the same thing: Harshly bitter and almost astringent. The most recently troubled batch is a Dales Pale Ale clone.

I needed an objective opinion so I had my wife try it...she said it "tastes like a chewed up aspirin". Wow.

But you know what?...she is ABSOLUTELY right. It seriously does remind me of Goody's headache powder--not sure if anyone's heard of this stuff...works really well to cure a headache but tastes horrible!

Anyway, I digress.

Anyone know what is going on?? I haven't really noticed it in the other beers that I brew but that might be because 1056/001 is so clean (ie, there is no lingering yeast flavor to cover up this taste--I don't know).

The worst part is the it tasted pretty good going into the keg. But after a few days in the keg, it developed the taste that I've described. It might have been there before going into the keg but it wasn't as obvious...or it was warm and flat and therefore I didn't get a good impression of it, haha. Either way, it became very pronounced a few days after kegging. And it's not even really drinkable at this point. Been kegged for about a month now. What a bummer.

Here's the recipe I used (a Dale's Pale Ale Clone)

8.75 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L
1.50 lb Munich Malt - 10L
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
0.85 oz Northern Brewer [10.60 %] (60 min) Hops 27.0 IBU
1.50 oz Cascade [7.50 %] (25 min) Hops 23.4 IBU
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12.00 %] (10 min) Hops 13.0 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale - STARTER = yes

- Mashed at 155-156 (I know this is high but I've had problems with dry taste in the past so the high mash temp was sort of an experiment)
- Fly sparged @170F
- OG: 1.063
- FG: 1.017

I used store bought spring water and drinking water (both store brand).

 

[ArcaneXor]

Could be a pH or water issue. Do you use 5.2 Mash Stabilizer in your mash and/or sparge water? Do you add any brewing salts?
The water you are using could be too "hard" for pale ales. Consider using RO water and building it up with brewing salts.

 

[EvilBrewer]

Could be a pH or water issue. Do you use 5.2 Mash Stabilizer in your mash and/or sparge water? Do you add any brewing salts?
The water you are using could be too "hard" for pale ales. Consider using RO water and building it up with brewing salts.

I haven't used any sort of mash stabilizer. I figured that since it was spring water and store bought drinking water, the pH would be okay. I'm starting to think that I'm wrong though...most signs have pointed to mash pH and mineral content.

Is spring water generally too 'hard' for brewing??

 

[ArcaneXor]

Is spring water generally too 'hard' for brewing??

Depends on the beer style and the source of the spring water.

 

[EvilBrewer]

Depends on the beer style and the source of the spring water.

Well, of COURSE there isn't an easy answer, haha. I guess I'm not sure what I expected there.

Just seems like...most recipes don't get into water profiles. And this problem I've been experiencing is pretty noticeable. I mean...I can't even drink this beer really. Could spring water really be that bad for brewing??

 

[cosmo]

Have you ever resolved this issue? I seem to have the same problem.

 

[EvilBrewer]

Have you ever resolved this issue? I seem to have the same problem.

Yeah, I've concluded that it was because of my water and (more importantly) the pH of my mash.

I used the advice from the *first* post in the following thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

There are almost 200 replies at the time that I'm writing this...so, you've got plenty of reading if that's what you want. I've read most of the replies but IMO, the first one pretty much says it all (the one that starts with "By Ajdelange").

It has worked very well for me. I've done three batches (american pale ales) using the methodology therein and the beers have been the best that I've brewed by FAR. Good luck!

 

[cosmo]

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping that's what fixed it. After about a hundred batches over tha last three years, almost all of them had the flavor you describe. Mine shows up shortly after kegging also. I went back into my notes and discovered a trend (although my notes were a little sketchy in the beginning). The batches that I added gypsum didn't have that flavor. In fact they were fantastic. I even had the problem in extract brews that didn't even have steeping grains (Belgian Blonde) when I didn't add gypsum. I am thinking it's caused by low calcium for the yeast metabilization. My water is moderately high in bicarbonates but low in calcium. I have a batch of american blonde ale that I will be kegging soon. I used a teaspoon each of gypsum and calcium chloride. If this one doesn't have the problem, then that's definately it in my mind. It's been about 50 or 60 batches since I didn't have that off flavor. I can't wait to find out.