unmilled grain in mash

[banana13]

My husband got a little overzealous and couldn't be bothered to wait for instructions and threw 3lbs of largely unmilled grain into the pot to mash

He decided to take the potato masher to it but who knows if it will do much - does anyone know if this will even ferment or how it might be saved?

 

[atoughram]

His efficiency will be next to nothing - there might be some fermentables in there, but not a lot.

 

[uatuba]

This is the only time that I'll suggest you dump it.


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[ShinyBuddha]

This is the only time that I'll suggest you dump it.


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Yeah, don't be so hasty.

3 pounds? So...was this a partial mash? I'd hold off on dumping it if the primary fermentables were either DME or LME and made up 90% of the boil. Bottle, wait, and learn from your mistakes. It's hard to mess up beer =)

 

[uatuba]

My interpretation was that it was an all grain batch and that he caught himself in the middle of the mistake. Dump it...everything up to the point of the mistake.


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[RM-MN]

Use your hydrometer to take a gravity reading. Over about 1.035 and I'd ferment it out. You might have a tasty session beer. I don't dump unless it is undrinkable.

 

[JDGator]

Use your hydrometer to take a gravity reading. Over about 1.035 and I'd ferment it out. You might have a tasty session beer. I don't dump unless it is undrinkable.

this.

and if it's really low you could toss in a bit of DME or LME to bring it uo some.

 

[kombat]

He decided to take the potato masher to it

Since no one else has addressed it yet, let me just state what should be obvious: There's no actual "mashing" during a mash. It's just a term that means "soaking the grains." Tell him to leave the potato masher in the drawer.

 

[banana13]

Use your hydrometer to take a gravity reading. Over about 1.035 and I'd ferment it out. You might have a tasty session beer. I don't dump unless it is undrinkable.

He opted to forgo that step too and brew the whole thing as is. Is there a way we can figure out the ABV after fermentation? I would have to think OG based on the recipe will not be accurate in this case.

Since no one else has addressed it yet, let me just state what should be obvious: There's no actual "mashing" during a mash. It's just a term that means "soaking the grains." Tell him to leave the potato masher in the drawer.

LOL, I told him the same thing.

It was an all grain brew, I guess at worst we'll just have a non-alcoholic, sweet beer? It was pitched with a dry yeast (not rehydrated) and it's downstairs bubbling a little bit 8 or so hours post brew so maybe we'll get something.

 

[surffisher2a]

He opted to forgo that step too and brew the whole thing as is. Is there a way we can figure out the ABV after fermentation? I would have to think OG based on the recipe will not be accurate in this case.



LOL, I told him the same thing.

It was an all grain brew, I guess at worst we'll just have a non-alcoholic, sweet beer? It was pitched with a dry yeast (not rehydrated) and it's downstairs bubbling a little bit 8 or so hours post brew so maybe we'll get something.

Without knowing the gravity after the boil there is no real way to determine the ABV unless you got access to a chemistry lab. With the "potato" mashing of the grains, its hard to even guess a ball park figure of where the gravity should have been. There are ways you can try and boil off just the alcohol and take before and after weights, but its hard to do in a home environment and be accurate.

Pitching with dry yeast isn't a big deal, its just not the best way to do it. I really wouldn't worry about that.

The good news is that its bubbling! Therefore you will have beer. The only thing you can really worry about at this point is infection. With all the shortcuts taken, I really hope he didn't overlook the sanitation steps.

 

[JimRausch]

Don't nag him about it, but I think you could tease your husband about his tendancy to rush through things without thinking. Next time, have him sit down beforehand and write down the whole process step by step. And then follow that. After a couple of batches it becomes 2nd nature(unless you're sampling too much product that is).
Good luck! Hope this batch turns out OK.

 

[Paradigm]

On the upside, the gravity is going to be so low that you probably didn't even need to rehydrate the dry yeast ahead of time!

 

[andy6026]

Would I be right in guessing that 3 lbs of grain was the entire grain bill for this batch? If so I'm guessing a 1-2 gallon batch?

Most 5 gallon batches are probably going to use around 8-12 lbs of grain, so if it's only a fraction of the grain bill that got 'potato mashed' while the rest was ground/milled properly then forge ahead! It won't be ideally what you're after, but it'll be beer. If, however, that was the entire grain bill and there are no other fermentables then it's going to be extremely weak. I don't usually recommend dumping either, but the effort to rack and bottle this batch wouldn't be worth it, IMHO.

If fermentation is, like you said, only 8-10 hours in, then by all means grab a sample and take a gravity reading. It won't be accurate, of course, but at least it'll let you know how much fermentable sugar is left. With some detailed data (such as exactly how long ago you pitched, what type of yeast, pitching and fermentation temps, grain bill, etc.) and some help from the good people here you might be able to at least ball-park the OG.

 

[banana13]

Would I be right in guessing that 3 lbs of grain was the entire grain bill for this batch? If so I'm guessing a 1-2 gallon batch?

Most 5 gallon batches are probably going to use around 8-12 lbs of grain, so if it's only a fraction of the grain bill that got 'potato mashed' while the rest was ground/milled properly then forge ahead! It won't be ideally what you're after, but it'll be beer. If, however, that was the entire grain bill and there are no other fermentables then it's going to be extremely weak. I don't usually recommend dumping either, but the effort to rack and bottle this batch wouldn't be worth it, IMHO.

If fermentation is, like you said, only 8-10 hours in, then by all means grab a sample and take a gravity reading. It won't be accurate, of course, but at least it'll let you know how much fermentable sugar is left. With some detailed data (such as exactly how long ago you pitched, what type of yeast, pitching and fermentation temps, grain bill, etc.) and some help from the good people here you might be able to at least ball-park the OG.

1gallon batch, full grain bill

grain bill was 1lb maris otter, 0.50lb chocolate wheat, 0.50lb biscuit, 0.25lb carapils, so it was just over 2lbs, not as close to 3 as we originally planned it to be.
60 minute mash at 140F, 75 minute boil at medium/low heat.
pitched 36hrs ago (as of 1pm EST April 24th) with dry, non-rehydrated Danstar nottingham ale yeast (5g)
pitching temp approx 70F fermentation temp approx 70F

I can update with a hydrometer reading after it's done fermenting.

 

[LovesIPA]

60 minute mash at 140F, 75 minute boil at medium/low heat.

Mashing at 140? If you're following directions, throw them in the garbage. You should never mash that low. It's outside of the range of the enzymes that convert the starches into fermentable sugars. If you aren't reading the directions, please do so in the future.

pitched 36hrs ago (as of 1pm EST April 24th) with dry, non-rehydrated Danstar nottingham ale yeast (5g)
pitching temp approx 70F fermentation temp approx 70F

Nottingham is a yeast strain that requires good fermentation temperature control to make good beer. 70F is too warm and it will produce some really strong esters in my experience. You need to keep that one under 65 wort temp - not ambient air temp.

 

[banana13]

Mashing at 140? If you're following directions, throw them in the garbage. You should never mash that low. It's outside of the range of the enzymes that convert the starches into fermentable sugars. If you aren't reading the directions, please do so in the future.



Nottingham is a yeast strain that requires good fermentation temperature control to make good beer. 70F is too warm and it will produce some really strong esters in my experience. You need to keep that one under 65 wort temp - not ambient air temp.

We read the directions, thanks

A mash between 135-150 is supposed to release the most beta amalayse - maltose, which is the most fermentable sugar in a mash. And it's not that enzymes don't activate, it's that they take longer.

And the fermentation temps of our nottingham are 57-70F - 70 ferment temp. would be a ball park because it's sitting at ambient basement temperature, but considering my main floor is around 68 with the winter that won't get lost...I'm sure the wort is in around 65 anyways down there.

but despite all of that - that whole unmilled grain thing is probably a bigger problem than temps

did you have any thoughts on an estimated OG had things gone as planned? We didn't get a reading before pitching (apparently it was too late and too confusing?) so I'll only be able to take the post-ferment reading

 

[boydster]

Take a look at this post from passedpawn: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/high-efficiency-guys-466718/#post6077343

Briess tested mashing unmilled malt. I bet you got 20% efficiency or a little better.