UK/US Pale Ale recipe... how's it look?

[flatfour64]

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Humphrey's Cyclist Ale
Brewer: Rob Colton
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste: (0.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 2.65 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 5.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 36.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4 lbs 8.0 oz Muntons Xtra Light DME (2.0 SRM) Dry Extract 53.57 %
3 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 35.71 %
7.2 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5.36 %
7.2 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5.36 %
1.00 oz Cascade [2.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort HopHops 3.5 IBU
1.00 oz Nugget [10.00 %] (60 min) Hops 16.1 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [2.00 %] (10 min) Hops 1.2 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [2.00 %] (1 min) Hops 0.1 IBU
1.00 oz Nugget [10.00 %] (1 min) Hops 0.7 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
7.00 gal Poland Spring (R) Water
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [StartYeast-Ale

 

[flatfour64]

I know the IBUs look low on the additions, but this is a partial boil and partial mash recipe and Beersmith does weirdo things with the display additions, but the final of 36 IBU is correct.

Anyway, let me know what you think of the grain bill. I think this should be pretty good, but not totally sure how the victory and honey additions will play out. Too much, too little? Here is the motivation for the recipe if it helps:

The idea is it should be a balanced and light-ish beer to be consumed after cycling. It has VICTORY malt in it for those days on the podium. It has HONEY malt in it to add some sweetness that will balance the hops bill and the nutty character of the victory malt. The fermentation temp is on the low side for the yeast, which should help bring out the citrus flavor from the cascade hops. The beer should have a hoppy nose, but balanced with nutty/bready/honey malt flavors.

Maris Otter pale malt and the Victory malt are UK all the way, but with American hops and yeast, its a hybrid.

 

[MrAverage]

My most recent APA attempt had MO and small portions of victory and light Munich in it and although it's pretty good, I find that the flavors are too muddy and "thick" - lacking the cripsness of a classic APA like SNPA or Full Sail. In the case of APA, I think that simpler grain bills are better.

I think that you should skip the Victory malt (add more MO to make up for it) and keep the honey where it is. Your're going to get a good amount of the nutty-bready thing from the MO. It seems to me that after cycling, you'd want crisp and clean malt and hop flavors. Adding more of the toasted victory malt flavor is going to muddle it up and obscure the other flavors somewhat.

If you're dead set on using both victory and honey, you might want to consider using American 2-row instead of MO since the victory is going to provide flavors similar to the MO.

My personal favorite APA recipe is American 2 Row pale malt with 5% Victory and a little crystal. Simple, with a hint of that toasty-bready malt thing from the Victory but still clean enough so that the hop flavors come though.

 

[GlenF]

I'd say leave both the victory and the honey malt. The MO will lend nutty/ bread/ rich notes, but you only have 3 lbs. With the DME, you want the 8oz Victory contribution. For simplicity's sake, I'd use 8 oz of both Victory and the Honey.

Also, don't add the nugget/ cascade 1min addition to the boil kettle, but dry hop with it. That way the nose will be very hoppy with floral and citrus.

 

[flatfour64]

Hey, those are some good points made by both of you, thanks!

After thinking about it, I agree that the MO along with the other malts may be a bit too much. I do want to keep the Victory, for the simple fact that I want to call this Cyclist Ale and it must have VICTORY in there! I think I will switch the 3lbs MO to 2-row and up the other malts to 8 oz each.

Good point on the late hop additions also. The only thing is that the hops I'm using are a bit old and were home grown from friends in WI. That is why the AA% is set a bit lower than standard for each variety. I have always heard to only dry hop with fresh hops... but I will have to think about this. Also, I'd like to keep this one in primary only and have never dry hopped in the primary... Can I put hops in the primary and let them interact with the yeast cake?

 

[GlenF]

You can definitely dry hop in primary. Just wait til fermentation has stopped. Throw hops in and wait 7-14 days. The hops will interact just fine and some will settle on their own. Rack to bottle bucket or keg and Enjoy!

 

[defenestrate]

i almost always drop hop in the primary... unless you are trying to reuse the yeast, its not problem. less chance for infection since you arent tranferring. if possible, try to cold crash a day or 2 before bottling/kegging if you dont already- that will greatly reduce what you pull out of the primary.

i prefer dry hopping with leaf, but pellets work just fine. a little sloppy and i dont feel like the aroma is as good, but works just fine.

 

[flatfour64]

Well, I am going to use half this yeast cake for my next big IPA on deck, so maybe I will save the dry hopping in primary for the next pale ale I do.

 

[defenestrate]

Well, I am going to use half this yeast cake for my next big IPA on deck, so maybe I will save the dry hopping in primary for the next pale ale I do.

since your doing an IPA you could probably get away with it, but i feel like you make get some vegetal flavors. you could also use your siphon to purposely siphon out some of the cake once fermentation is done with the apa and set that aside or your ipa before dry hopping... just an idea.

 

[MrAverage]

Another option - instead of dry hopping, add the last hop addition at flameout and let it steep for 30 mins before chilling. It won't be the same as dry hopping but you will get a lot of hop aroma in the finished product

 

[defenestrate]

Another option - instead of dry hopping, add the last hop addition at flameout and let it steep for 30 mins before chilling. It won't be the same as dry hopping but you will get a lot of hop aroma in the finished product

depending on how hot the wort stays, if you steep for 30 min you may lose some aroma and get more flavor... similar to the revised hopping schedules used for no-chill brewing.

 

[flatfour64]

Another option - instead of dry hopping, add the last hop addition at flameout and let it steep for 30 mins before chilling. It won't be the same as dry hopping but you will get a lot of hop aroma in the finished product

That's kinda where I was going with the 1 min additions. Does it make a difference to boil for 1 min vs adding at flame-out?

Also on this subject, I always hear its best to cool as fast as possible with the chiller, so what happens to the wort if it is left to steep for 30 min before cooling?

 

[defenestrate]

That's kinda where I was going with the 1 min additions. Does it make a difference to boil for 1 min vs adding at flame-out?

Also on this subject, I always hear its best to cool as fast as possible with the chiller, so what happens to the wort if it is left to steep for 30 min before cooling?

you will lose a little aroma anytime you boil the hops, but there isn't a HUGE difference... say like a 20 min addition to a 0 min addition.

there are a lot of opinions on chilling... i suggest looking up no chill brewing. there are plenty of guys on here that swear by it. i like a good fast chill bc you get a lot of break material to drop out.

 

[MrAverage]

I think it probably doesn't make any differnce if you add them at 1 min or at flame out. What DOES seem to matter is how long they sit in the hot wort before you start to chill it. I've found that a 10 min steep wasn't long enough and 20 - 30 min seems to produce a good effect. You also have to be sure to add a pretty large quantity of hops - at least an ounce for a 5 gal batch. I haven't noticed any diffence with beers that I've chilled immediately and ones that I've done the 20 - 30 min steep with.

 

[flatfour64]

Well, I think this calls for an experiement! I will try doing a 30 min hop steep with this wort with 1 oz leaf Nugget and 1 oz leaf Cascade. It will be new for me, therefore it will be fun.

Good stuff.