Looking to make a big RIS and i don't believe our mash tuns will hold the amount of grain. So was thinking of splitting the grain bill evenly and run it through two mashtuns collect in one kettle. Any downfalls in doing this?
Two mash tuns one stout
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timdillon36
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You will have to clean 2 mash tuns
Do you plan to sparge? I think brewing a big beer like this lends itself to doing a parti guile (sp) brew.
What size are your MTs and what is the receipt you are working with. Also what size kettles do you have to work with.
Do you plan to sparge? I think brewing a big beer like this lends itself to doing a parti guile (sp) brew.
What size are your MTs and what is the receipt you are working with. Also what size kettles do you have to work with.
Norselord
Well-Known Member
I think i saw this movie - its pretty gross.
Wait.
Nope - wrong thread.
Can you do a mini-mash? Get most of your gravity points from grains, and then add DME to make up the difference?
Wait.
Nope - wrong thread.
Can you do a mini-mash? Get most of your gravity points from grains, and then add DME to make up the difference?
Steve3730
Well-Known Member
We have 10 gallon igloo coolers. Generally i batch sparge. We have 20 gallon kettles with no filter.
5 gallon batch
17lbs 2 row
1.5lbs roasted barley
1lbs special b
12oz chocolate malt
8oz cara
Which the mash tun should hold but i want to do a 7 gallon batch
5 gallon batch
17lbs 2 row
1.5lbs roasted barley
1lbs special b
12oz chocolate malt
8oz cara
Which the mash tun should hold but i want to do a 7 gallon batch
JLeuck64
Well-Known Member
I think you have an excellent idea! It could really streamline your mash time and I bet you would get pretty good efficiency also. I crunched the numbers real quick for your recipe and it would take 6.5 gal to mash those grains, assuming a 1.25 ratio of water to grains. You should end up with a total of 4 gal for the first runnings, then you would just need to batch sparge with another 4 gal to get a pre boil volume of 8 gal. When I used to batch sparge I would always shoot for a 50/50 split on the first runnings and the batch sparge because it maximizes the sugar you extract from the grains. Always got really good efficiency with that technique too!
That formula worked great for a single MT so you would need to split your grains in half, put 3.25 gals of H20 in each MT, then batch sparge each MT with 2 gal H20
That formula worked great for a single MT so you would need to split your grains in half, put 3.25 gals of H20 in each MT, then batch sparge each MT with 2 gal H20
bobeer
Fermentation Specalist
I'd think you'd have to make sure you split whatever base malt you're using between the 2 mashes. That way you get good convergence in both mashes.
As JLeuck64 says split the sparge 50/50 between both mash tuns. Sparge 2 gallons in one then 2 gallons in the other.
As long as you do the above I don't see any issues with doing this.
As JLeuck64 says split the sparge 50/50 between both mash tuns. Sparge 2 gallons in one then 2 gallons in the other.
As long as you do the above I don't see any issues with doing this.
I do something "like" this for my RIS. I do 2 consecutive mashes..... The end result is we finish with 8 gallons of RIS and 6 gallons of a "second runnings" beer which we generally turn into a "black lager."
I have a 3 tier stand, so I do consecutive mashes instead of simultaneous mashes.
Mash #1 - similar grain bill to you. Conduct mash like normal. Start batch sparge and run off 4-5 gallons into boil kettle and start boil. Run another 3-4 gallons off into a 5 gallon bucket and set aside.
Clean out mash tun and get ready to start Mash #2 with exact same grain bill. Conduct mash as normal. Meanwhile, we are already boiling first runnings from mash #1.... they boil down to about 3-4.5 gallons during mash #2. Start sparge on mash #2.... take 4-5 gallons of first runnings into the already boiling wort. Take second runnings into another 5 gallon bucket.
* I want to say both grain bills are around 18 pounds and they are both exactly the same as each other.
Clean out mash tun (which is a stainless kettle) and get it ready to become a second boil kettle. Add second runnings wort to the kettle that was previously the mash tun. Start boil on that one too.
So, now we have a kettle of RIS boiling, and we have a kettle of second runnings boiling. We take gravities on both at this point to see where we are at..... we have several 1 lb bags of light DME on hand to adjust gravity of both beers if needed. We are looking for about 1.10-1.13 on the RIS. We are looking for something like 1.050 on the second runnings beer. Proceed with boils normally. Hopping as normal, etc.
With 15 minutes to go in the boils we add any DME we need to add and we also top kettles up with RO water to make sure we are going to end with our desired volumes and gravities.
Second runnings go into fermenter #1, lager yeast, and into the fermentation chamber.
The RIS (end with 8 gallons post boil) goes into two separate fermenters - 4 gallons each as there is a lot of krausen and blow off from a beer this big. Ferment the RIS for 3 weeks at which point I fill a 5 gallon keg and a 2.5 gallon keg and let it age in the keg.
I then jump the RIS base off 2-3 gallons at a time with close transfer to add things like coffee, oak, etc.....
It is a different overall process than what you are doing - but same basic theory. 2 smaller mashes will give you better efficiency that attempting one big one. You might also be able to get a second runnings beer off yours too (Mild, Dark Lager, Brown Porter, etc.)
I highly recommend having 3-4 1 pound bags of DME on hand for gravity adjustments to big beers like this to adjust on the fly. Efficiency can get tricky as the grain bills get bigger.
PS - this is one crazy brew day. I do this with a friend once a year and we split both batches.
I have a 3 tier stand, so I do consecutive mashes instead of simultaneous mashes.
Mash #1 - similar grain bill to you. Conduct mash like normal. Start batch sparge and run off 4-5 gallons into boil kettle and start boil. Run another 3-4 gallons off into a 5 gallon bucket and set aside.
Clean out mash tun and get ready to start Mash #2 with exact same grain bill. Conduct mash as normal. Meanwhile, we are already boiling first runnings from mash #1.... they boil down to about 3-4.5 gallons during mash #2. Start sparge on mash #2.... take 4-5 gallons of first runnings into the already boiling wort. Take second runnings into another 5 gallon bucket.
* I want to say both grain bills are around 18 pounds and they are both exactly the same as each other.
Clean out mash tun (which is a stainless kettle) and get it ready to become a second boil kettle. Add second runnings wort to the kettle that was previously the mash tun. Start boil on that one too.
So, now we have a kettle of RIS boiling, and we have a kettle of second runnings boiling. We take gravities on both at this point to see where we are at..... we have several 1 lb bags of light DME on hand to adjust gravity of both beers if needed. We are looking for about 1.10-1.13 on the RIS. We are looking for something like 1.050 on the second runnings beer. Proceed with boils normally. Hopping as normal, etc.
With 15 minutes to go in the boils we add any DME we need to add and we also top kettles up with RO water to make sure we are going to end with our desired volumes and gravities.
Second runnings go into fermenter #1, lager yeast, and into the fermentation chamber.
The RIS (end with 8 gallons post boil) goes into two separate fermenters - 4 gallons each as there is a lot of krausen and blow off from a beer this big. Ferment the RIS for 3 weeks at which point I fill a 5 gallon keg and a 2.5 gallon keg and let it age in the keg.
I then jump the RIS base off 2-3 gallons at a time with close transfer to add things like coffee, oak, etc.....
It is a different overall process than what you are doing - but same basic theory. 2 smaller mashes will give you better efficiency that attempting one big one. You might also be able to get a second runnings beer off yours too (Mild, Dark Lager, Brown Porter, etc.)
I highly recommend having 3-4 1 pound bags of DME on hand for gravity adjustments to big beers like this to adjust on the fly. Efficiency can get tricky as the grain bills get bigger.
PS - this is one crazy brew day. I do this with a friend once a year and we split both batches.
Steve3730
Well-Known Member
I haven't put much thought into doing a parti-gyle. I'm new at my brewclub and have only done one beer there so far. Maybe I should wait and get a feel for the equipment before attempting the big RIS.
Sorta unrelated question but I have a porter fermenting right now. Wlp002 yeast, same I plan to use for the RIS. Should I save the yeast cakes or start with fresh wlp002. Porter was of 1.071 2 liter starter
Sorta unrelated question but I have a porter fermenting right now. Wlp002 yeast, same I plan to use for the RIS. Should I save the yeast cakes or start with fresh wlp002. Porter was of 1.071 2 liter starter
skraeling
Scientist Extraordinaire
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biggest grain bill Ive fit in my mashtun so far was ~14.5lbs?
US 2-Row Malt 13lb 0oz (84.1 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Medium Crystal 8.00 oz (3.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
Belgian Special B 8.00 oz (3.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Wheat Malt 4.00 oz (1.6 %) In Mash/Steeped
US Chocolate Malt (350L) 3.20 oz (1.3 %) In Mash/Steeped
That would be a great yeast for a RIS. Don't need to save the entire cake, but definitely save a couple pint jars of it and make a starter with it the day before you do the RIS.
Another thought, f time isn't to valuable. Your can mash in your second grain bill in the wort from the first grain bill
Mash, drain(or lift in bag),return wort, mash again, sparge.
Blichmann did this on one of the homebrew podcasts. It works. May have to boil a bit of wort to hit temp on the second mash.
Also, I would leave out the roasted grains until the second mash so your not screwing with your pH to much.
I vote against 002. It's low attenuation will probably leave you with a higher fg than desired. Id go pacman, San Diego super or another high attenuation yeast. My .02
Mash, drain(or lift in bag),return wort, mash again, sparge.
Blichmann did this on one of the homebrew podcasts. It works. May have to boil a bit of wort to hit temp on the second mash.
Also, I would leave out the roasted grains until the second mash so your not screwing with your pH to much.
I vote against 002. It's low attenuation will probably leave you with a higher fg than desired. Id go pacman, San Diego super or another high attenuation yeast. My .02
I do agree that 002 will give you a high FG.... so, you might want to consider your end goal. High FG for RIS can be very desirable. A lot of the well know RIS (Dark Lord, Toppling Goliath, etc) finish at 1.040-1.060. In particular if you are adding coffee, oak, bourbon, etc..... a high finishing gravity really smooths out the beer.
I purposely shoot for 1.030-1.040 FG on my RIS.
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It is possible to mash with a 1 qt/lb ratio of water to grain which for your 5 gallon recipe is 17 lbs grain times 7/5 to scale up equaling 24 lbs grain and 6 gallons mash water. It might be a tight fit in your cooler but possibly easier than dealing with a second tun. I also use a 40 qt cooler and I calculated that the absolute maximum amount of grain at a 1.25 qt/lb ratio I could use was just under 25 lbs but that it would be practically spilling over the top when stirred. However reducing the quarts of water to pounds of grain ratio down to 1 to 1 should allow it all to fit.
I've done this exact thing, and it works really well! 2 mash tuns, draining into one boil kettle. Just pretend this is two separate beers until you start draining into the kettle. Two mashes, two strike water calculations, two water/salt/acid additions and that's it. Just drain into a single kettle when they're done.
I fly sparged each of them by pouring water on top of each grain bed, keeping an inch or so of water over each. I sparged up to the desired pre-boil amount. Done!
For bonus points, when you're done with your big beer, keep sparging these grains into another pot. We were able to make an entirely separate 5 gallon batch at 1.060 from the runnings.
I fly sparged each of them by pouring water on top of each grain bed, keeping an inch or so of water over each. I sparged up to the desired pre-boil amount. Done!
For bonus points, when you're done with your big beer, keep sparging these grains into another pot. We were able to make an entirely separate 5 gallon batch at 1.060 from the runnings.
Brewenstein
Well-Known Member
Did something similar to OdeCloner. Two mash tuns, 48 pounds of grain, 4 pounds of sugar, ending up with 14 gallons of imperial stout at 10% ABV. And 6 gallons of a 1.050 milk stout. Epic brew day. About 8 hours if I remember correctly.
Pics of the full tuns.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1481670857.880424.jpg
Pics of the full tuns.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1481670857.880424.jpg
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
I used the "can I mash it" calculator at the Green Bay Rackers site:
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml
and at 1.25 qts/lb it says 8.14 gallons of space consumed.
So yes, two 10 gallon mash tuns should be fine for making a 10 gallon batch.
You can even increase your grain by 15% and make a 11.5 gallon batch,
but your coolers will be so close to full it might spill when you stir.
I'm kind of cheap and have a curious mind, So I after running off the wort from the two coolers, and getting the 10 gallon batch going, I might be tempted to "sparge" another 2.5 gallons through each tun and see what gravity is achieved. You might be able to make another 3 gallons of beer out of the same grain. It would only take a few extra minutes, and while you are getting the main pot boiling you have extra time anyway, so why not try it? If the gravity is too low you can dump it or add some extract.
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml
and at 1.25 qts/lb it says 8.14 gallons of space consumed.
So yes, two 10 gallon mash tuns should be fine for making a 10 gallon batch.
You can even increase your grain by 15% and make a 11.5 gallon batch,
but your coolers will be so close to full it might spill when you stir.
I'm kind of cheap and have a curious mind, So I after running off the wort from the two coolers, and getting the 10 gallon batch going, I might be tempted to "sparge" another 2.5 gallons through each tun and see what gravity is achieved. You might be able to make another 3 gallons of beer out of the same grain. It would only take a few extra minutes, and while you are getting the main pot boiling you have extra time anyway, so why not try it? If the gravity is too low you can dump it or add some extract.
Steve3730
Well-Known Member
I'm shooting for a RIS similar to the ones mentioned. BS predicts a FG of 1.032 and I will be barrel aging this and maybe a coffee addition
brandonlovesbeer
BrandonLovesBeer
What I did once.
I mashed just the base grains at lower temps during one mash.
Then with a second mash I did another smaller bit of base malt and all the specialty grains, dark malts etc at a higher temp. Then mixed them together for the boil.
It turned out great!
I mashed just the base grains at lower temps during one mash.
Then with a second mash I did another smaller bit of base malt and all the specialty grains, dark malts etc at a higher temp. Then mixed them together for the boil.
It turned out great!
Fathand
Well-Known Member
Jwin this is called Reiterated Mashing.
http://beerandwinejournal.com/reiterated-mashing-1/
Did this on a big barleywine with great success.
Never done it myself but blichmann did it 2x and 3x.
My tun will hold 60+# at 1.25/g so never had a need
