Troubleshooting Brew Day Mistakes

[geoffm33]

I brewed a 3 gallon batch of Da Yoopers House Pale Ale last night and hit quite a few snags. This is only my second brew on a new setup so still working out the kinks.

Issue #1: I got terrible mash efficiency (BIAB). I was in a rush and milled my grains with a faster speed than I usually do on my drill + corona mill. I typically nail my preboil gravity, but was off by 5 points, could this be it?

I also had less grain absorption than BS anticipated, but only .1 gallons so I doubt that contributed.

Issue #2 was that I didn't boil off nearly as much as I expected and had .6 gallons extra. This compounded the issue and I wound up off 12 points on OG. Dammit

I didn't boil off the excess out of fear of mucking up the hop utilization, should I have?

Target was 5.8% ABV, looks like it will be closer to 4.3%. But it will be beer.

Will it taste thin? Will upping the dry hop amount mask that? Or just roll with it, correct my mistakes and try it again?

 

[LandoLincoln]

Milling grain speed...yeah, I don't know how much this affects corona mills. I'd say that the adjusting nut on the front of your mill might have gotten a little loose. It seems like every other brew day or every third brew day I have to tighten mine about a 1/4 turn to keep the efficiency relatively stable. Maybe the high speed shook the adjusting nut loose.

Yes, it's going to taste thin. I would have boiled off the excess. Better to have a slightly hoppier beer than a thinner beer, in my opinion. No, I don't think dry-hopping it is going to help, so just let it roll.

 

[geoffm33]

Milling grain speed...yeah, I don't know how much this affects corona mills. I'd say that the adjusting nut on the front of your mill might have gotten a little loose. It seems like every other brew day or every third brew day I have to tighten mine about a 1/4 turn to keep the efficiency relatively stable. Maybe the high speed shook the adjusting nut loose.

Yes, it's going to taste thin. I would have boiled off the excess. Better to have a slightly hoppier beer than a thinner beer, in my opinion. No, I don't think dry-hopping it is going to help, so just let it roll.

I haven't adjusted my mill in several brews, and now that I think of it, last brew was a little off, not this bad though. So that could be it.

I just altered the boil time (and extended the hop additions prior to 10 minutes) in BS to 100 minutes and it increased it to 53 IBU from 43. I guess a midrange IPA is better than a watered down APA.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Fwiw, if your mill adjustments are wandering, I would suggest replacing the three wing nuts with higher quality parts from a local hardware store.

The quality of the wing nuts that came with my Corona were horrible.

Once you have your mill set and your happy, then tighten down the wing nuts good and firm with pliers.

Hopefully this provides more consistency.

 

[geoffm33]

Fwiw, if your mill adjustments are wandering, I would suggest replacing the three wing nuts with higher quality parts from a local hardware store.

The quality of the wing nuts that came with my Corona were horrible.

Once you have your mill set and your happy, then tighten down the wing nuts good and firm with pliers.

Hopefully this provides more consistency.

Thanks, I'll try that.

This is also the first time I dumped and stirred straight from my mill bucket into the kettle and not scoop/stir.

So I could have had some dough balls as well.

 

[helibrewer]

Keep some DME handy for those "light" boils. On a typical 5.25 gallon post boil volume, 1 pound of DME will raise your gravity 8 points (1.008)

 

[geoffm33]

Keep some DME handy for those "light" boils. On a typical 5.25 gallon post boil volume, 1 pound of DME will raise your gravity 8 points (1.008)

I got cocky. Had it on hand for my first few AG batches, used it up in the first batch. Had a bunch of successful brews since then, never restocked

 

[wilserbrewer]

This is also the first time I dumped and stirred straight from my mill bucket into the kettle and not scoop/stir.

So I could have had some dough balls as well.

I can't imagine an issue with this, with the thin mashes of BIAB, the grain mixes easily IME, if you didn't see any dough balls, I doubt there were any.

I have always dumped the grain into the strike water in one full swoop and never had an issue. I like to stir from the bottom up so you can see the mash well.

 

[geoffm33]

I can't imagine an issue with this, with the thin mashes of BIAB, the grain mixes easily IME, if you didn't see any dough balls, I doubt there were any.

I have always dumped the grain into the strike water in one full swoop and never had an issue. I like to stir from the bottom up so you can see the mash well.

True. I did stir the heck out of it. And I do recall having a pretty good crush, nothing looked out of sorts.

Entirely possible I had my grain weight or water volume measurements wrong. Though I am pretty sure they were correct.

What else could cause low gravity assuming:

1. Water volume correct
2. Grain weight correct
3. Good crush
4. No doughballs
5. Proper mash temps

Here is the brewsheet I worked from:

Recipe: Da Yooper's House Pale Ale - AA Adjusted	TYPE: All Grain
Style: American Pale Ale
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 9.4 SRM		SRM RANGE: 5.0-14.0 SRM
IBU: 43.6 IBUs Tinseth	IBU RANGE: 30.0-45.0 IBUs
OG: 1.059 SG		OG RANGE: 1.045-1.060 SG
FG: 1.014 SG		FG RANGE: 1.010-1.015 SG
BU:GU: 0.745		Calories: 0.0 kcal/12oz	Est ABV: 5.8 %		
EE%: 72.00 %	Batch: 3.00 gal      Boil: 5.14 gal	BT: 60 Mins

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------


Total Grain Weight: 6 lbs 10.0 oz	Total Hops: 2.53 oz oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.20 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
3 lbs                 Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)         Grain         1        45.3 %        
1 lbs 13.0 oz         Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)                    Grain         2        27.4 %        
1 lbs 3.0 oz          Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)                    Grain         3        17.9 %        
5.0 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)    Grain         4        4.7 %         
5.0 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)    Grain         5        4.7 %         


Name                     Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Saccharification         Add 5.63 gal of water at 160.2 F        154.0 F       60 min        

---SPARGE PROCESS---
>>>>>>>>>>-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 72.0 F/72.0 F
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.040 SG	Est OG: 1.059 SG
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
0.46 oz               Cascade [7.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           6        19.5 IBUs     
0.46 oz               Cascade [7.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           7        15.0 IBUs     
0.50 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)        Fining        8        -             
0.46 oz               Cascade [7.10 %] - Boil 10.0 min         Hop           9        7.1 IBUs      
0.23 oz               Cascade [7.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min          Hop           10       1.9 IBUs      
0.30 oz               Cascade [7.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min          Hop           11       0.0 IBUs

And here are some note I took for Beersmith estimated vs actuals:

			Estimated	Actual
Mash Water		5.63		5.63
Grain Absorption	0.49		0.38
Measured Pre Boil	5.14		5.25
Pre Boil Gravity	1.04		1.035
Boil Off		1.5		0.9
Post Boil Volume	3.64		4.35
Trub Loss		0.5		0.6
Into Fermenter		3		3.75
Original Gravity	1.059		1.047

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ok, did you use your new large pot with the basket for this tiny batch ?

I'm thinking way too much dead space under the basket and a good percentage of the water was not intimate enough with the grain mash?

All the water needs to mix with all the grain for a proper efficient rinse!

Not a fan of baskets here...jmo
Cheers!

 

[geoffm33]

I have the BC 1044 without the basket. So I had just the grain bag. I stirred less frequently than on previous batches, but pretty thoroughly when I did.

 

[wilserbrewer]

My friend, you simply made too much beer!

Target finish volume was only 3 gallons, and you made 3.75 gallons, or 25% more!

This will reduce your OG, and ABV by 20%, about exactly where you are!

This is why small batch brewing is tricky, going over by 3 quarts on a ten gallon batch is a much smaller percentage of batch size and will have a much smaller effect. 3 quarts over on a 3 gallon batch is huge.

In my simple mind, you're efficiency wasn't that far off goal, you just watered down what you brewed....

Not a big fan of complicated software here, I think you had your head wrapped up in BeerSmith rather than over the kettle where it belongs...just kidding, I know you Bostonians can take it...tough crowd up there....cheers!

wilser

Yes, and next time continue boiling, holding your late hops and timing them with the end of the boil. I no longer really boil for an exact time, but simply boil to a finish volume, and add my late hops keyed on flame out, NOT beginning of boil.

I usually boil about an hour, usually a bit longer, and to be honest I don't even time it anymore besides looking at the clock and making a mental note...my finish volume is what's important to me.

 

[geoffm33]

Thanks wilser! I can take it

I'm more wondering how I missed my pre boil gravity by as much as I did. My low OG is absolutely due to my lack of boil off as you mention. Certainly won't make that mistake again, and will boil it off regardless.

Thanks!

 

[wilserbrewer]

I'm more wondering how I missed my pre boil gravity by as much as I did.

I don't think you did, there is a fly in the ointment somewhere....

Taking another look at the gravity point yields...

gallons X gravity = total gravity points

Estimated pre boil
5.14 X 40 = 206
Estimated post boil
3.5 X 59 = 206

Actual pre boil
5.25 X 35 = 184
Actual post boil
4.35 X 47 = 204

From this I conclude that your efficiency is very close to the estimated efficiency used in Beersmith, maybe 1% less, as you produced 204 out of the estimated 206, and likely your pre-boil gravity, and or your pre-boil volume is in error. Your extraction was as predicted, your final volumes were not.

Total gravity points are consistent and do not change during the boil as sugar does not boil off, also interesting to note that unless you add sugar to the boil, gravity points cannot increase. Your total gravity points went from 184 to 204.45 before / after boil. This indicates a flawed measurement.

Cheers!

ps I don't know too much about this, so I hope I'm not full of crap.

 

[geoffm33]

You are probably right about the flawed measurements. I think the answer to the problem is to brew again

 

[wilserbrewer]

You are probably right about the flawed measurements. I think the answer to the problem is to brew again

Agreed, I also think the answer is to brew a much larger batch whereby a few extra quarts, will be just that, few extra quarts of beer, rather than dragging down the batch.

So brew larger batches more often, helluva solution we came to