American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone
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I spund right after pitching and set the gauge to release at about 10 PSI. Usually takes 3 days to reach pressure. I then toss in a dry hop and set the valve to 15-25 PSI. I leave it under pressure from that point on. Seems to finish with 1318 in 5-6 days and then its pushed to a purged SV. All hops float free, which seems to help both aroma and flavor. I have experienced clogs and am working to make the method more fool proof, because it is a pain getting around a tough clog... but it can be done. I have a new screen setup I am building which I hope eliminates the clogs for good. Once I get around to making it and trying it a few times, I will post results. Best of luck!
Mothman
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I just realized I never updated this.
I let the bottles carb for about a week and a half and was actually pleasantly surprised by the result.
It wasn't what I expected when choosing this recipe... I expected a hazy, juicy, NEIPA, and instead I got a relatively clear, balanced, but bitter, West-meets-East IPA... but my concerns about an overly bitter mess turned out to not be true.
It did turn out more bitter than I expected, and I'm still not sure why, but it wasn't overpowering (at least for me... wife didn't like it, but she is more averse to bitter than I am).
The aroma was spot on.... juicy, citrus, some peach. The flavour included some subtle notes of the same, with the malt still showing, and then the bitterness at the end.
The bottles are now a month in the bottles, and I've still got half a dozen or so left, and they are still very enjoyable.
I will likely try this recipe again some time, and do my dry hop earlier, as I missed active fermentation this time around... and see if the repeat brew maintains the bitterness as this first go.
Thanks for the info man. Just brewed a batch around 3.5gal, threw it in a keg and set up the spundle as you described. Also have a clear beer floating dip tube in the keg -- hoping this works out where I don't even have to transfer. I'll keep ya posted on that.
Please do! I have three of those clear beer system floats and really like how they work!
jpLV
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Really curious to see the results as well. I've wanted to experiment with dry-hopping in the keg for some time but havent pulled the trigger on a method yet. Seems like that type of system could streamline the spunding part too.
Fingers crossed!
Quick update: Just threw in the dryhops around ~36hrs post pitch. 3.5 gallons appeared to leave me about .5 gallons of headspace in the keg when I opened it up to throw the hops in, so not sure i'd make over a 3.5 gallon batch in a 5 gallon keg, just fyi. Also, had a slightly faster pickup on pressure building in the early stages than did stonebrewer, I had around 10-12psi built up maybe 18 hours post pitch -- I guess it really took off -- also I was super scared and checked the gauge every few hours lol. So far so good!
So crashed it down to serving temp for 24hr. Just pulled my first sample.
Initial impressions:
1. it's already carb'd ... that's awesome
2. clear beer thing pulled a super clean pour first time around .. that's double awesome
3. the aroma is definitely a bit more in your face than when i do the normal blowoff and c02 assisted transfer from my conical to a keg .. that's triple awesome
4. it's still a tad green (it's only day 7) .. it's gonna be on par with trillium stuff no doubt though
SUCCESS!
Initial impressions:
1. it's already carb'd ... that's awesome
2. clear beer thing pulled a super clean pour first time around .. that's double awesome
3. the aroma is definitely a bit more in your face than when i do the normal blowoff and c02 assisted transfer from my conical to a keg .. that's triple awesome
4. it's still a tad green (it's only day 7) .. it's gonna be on par with trillium stuff no doubt though
SUCCESS!
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Thanks for the update! Sounds like I may have some new methods to try
For sure. I probably won’t try the beer for another 3-4 days and the hop bite should be gone. At that point I can say with certainty — but everything is definitely pointing in the direction of this being an easier and perhaps better method.
LoneTreeFarms
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@degivens: are you Rick Flair's son?
Glad this worked for you. Let us know how the flavor and aroma is in a week! Cheers!!!
hahaha
Yup i’ll keep ya posted.
Beer has settled down now. On day 11. Took the beer to a mini share with some friends last night. The beer was in the top 2 or 3 in a lineup or several Trillium, Aslin, Treehouse, and Triple Crossing beers.
Pretty awesome coming from my garage. Thanks a lot to everyone who has dropped little bits of knowledge in this thread over the last year. Really excited to finally have a process that i’m confident hangs with the heavy hitters.
Pretty awesome coming from my garage. Thanks a lot to everyone who has dropped little bits of knowledge in this thread over the last year. Really excited to finally have a process that i’m confident hangs with the heavy hitters.
For the dextrose, are you adding that to your grains/mash, or in the boil?
I add it with 10-15 minutes left in the boil, that gives it enough time to mix in well.
Awesome, thanks. And for those who are making their water profiles.. I'm balancing out to 150 CaSO/CaCl2, but with adding those it also brings the Calcium level up to around 150ppm... Is that a big deal? The alternative is using Epsom salt rather than Gypsum, but that'll bring the Magnesium level up instead... Is one preferred over the other, or am I looking too much into it? I am using Bru'n Water to calculate.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
For my last several batches, I've aimed for low Ca (30-40) and CaCl around 100-125. No issues with highish Mg. I think soft water is important to hit the target profile, but that's just my taste buds.
Well, here is my update on this. I brewed it up on Saturday, made a couple tweaks but overall stuck close to the recipe. After mashing, I had an SG of 1.058. I pulled off 8.25-8.5 gallons in a bit of a panic on some of what I read here about hop and trub loss.. I boiled an hour and ended up with a little less than 7 gallons, looks like about 6.5 in my fermenter. I am totally thrown for a loss, as I pulled the OG from the kettle and it was reading 1.056. I can't even wrap my mind around how that's possible given where it started and boiling off over a gallon.. Anyone have thoughts on that? Even the math doesn't check out. The quick formula I've always used to find where I need to hit my OG is taking your starting gravity points (58), multipying it by your starting volume (8.5) and dividing it by where you want to end up post boil (lets say 7 gallons).. That should have landed at about 70 gravity points, so 1.070ish, granted I would say I ended with 6.5 gallons, so it should have been right on point around 1.073.... I don't know if my hydrometer was off or what. So that was the only thing that I can't stop racking my brain over since brewing haha..
Fermentation took right off. I made a 1L starter, decanted a day later, and added another 1.5L to it, before decanting and rousing it up on brew day. It went nuts within a day. I came down yesterday morning and immediately decided I needed to get a blow off tube hooked up... Which was the right choice, because this morning it's still going crazy... Kruesen is right up to the neck and it's still bubbling pretty wild. Plan on dry hopping tomorrow, but I'm still trying to get some direction from there.
From what I gather, these beers are done 7-10 days. I have recently acquired a keg, but I have never kegged before. Have been doing quite a bit of reading on it, and I want to go this route to avoid as much O2 exposure as possible. Can't decide if I should do a closed system transfer or just siphon right through the lid hole, and pressurize. I don't have a SS racking tube, but don't know if that's cruicial or if I can just use a general plastic one?
My last question that I am bit in the dark on, is are people dry hopping (per the recipe) on day 3 inside their fermenter? For me, that's a glass carboy. I am reading people are also dry hopping in the keg, so are you dry hopping twice? Do you do that dry hop in the keg, then pull that out, then pressurize? Or do you hop under pressure, depressurize, pull the hopper out, and pressurize again? Sorry for the noobish questions, just trying to understand what kind of process is going on here.
Other than that, the beer smells great, looks great, and I can't wait to try it! Just need to iron out these last details and sounds like I should be ready to keg by this weekend based off the activity of the beer!
Fermentation took right off. I made a 1L starter, decanted a day later, and added another 1.5L to it, before decanting and rousing it up on brew day. It went nuts within a day. I came down yesterday morning and immediately decided I needed to get a blow off tube hooked up... Which was the right choice, because this morning it's still going crazy... Kruesen is right up to the neck and it's still bubbling pretty wild. Plan on dry hopping tomorrow, but I'm still trying to get some direction from there.
From what I gather, these beers are done 7-10 days. I have recently acquired a keg, but I have never kegged before. Have been doing quite a bit of reading on it, and I want to go this route to avoid as much O2 exposure as possible. Can't decide if I should do a closed system transfer or just siphon right through the lid hole, and pressurize. I don't have a SS racking tube, but don't know if that's cruicial or if I can just use a general plastic one?
My last question that I am bit in the dark on, is are people dry hopping (per the recipe) on day 3 inside their fermenter? For me, that's a glass carboy. I am reading people are also dry hopping in the keg, so are you dry hopping twice? Do you do that dry hop in the keg, then pull that out, then pressurize? Or do you hop under pressure, depressurize, pull the hopper out, and pressurize again? Sorry for the noobish questions, just trying to understand what kind of process is going on here.
Other than that, the beer smells great, looks great, and I can't wait to try it! Just need to iron out these last details and sounds like I should be ready to keg by this weekend based off the activity of the beer!
For the transfer, using a plastic siphon is totally fine. The important part is using CO2 to move the beer and minimizing any oxygen ingress in general.
Dry hopping for me is typically 36-48hrs post-pitch, I haven't been "double dry hopping" very often, but it's totally reasonable to add an additional dry-hop in the purged keg you ultimately transfer. With that, you may not want to do it unless you've either cut your dip tube a bit shorter or are using a floating dip tube like the clear beer draught system (i'm a big fan of this option). Some people have reported some vegetal taste from keg hopping, I personally haven't gotten that -- but something to be aware of. Might be something to test after you get through batch 1 so you minimize the points at which something could go wrong!
Dry hopping for me is typically 36-48hrs post-pitch, I haven't been "double dry hopping" very often, but it's totally reasonable to add an additional dry-hop in the purged keg you ultimately transfer. With that, you may not want to do it unless you've either cut your dip tube a bit shorter or are using a floating dip tube like the clear beer draught system (i'm a big fan of this option). Some people have reported some vegetal taste from keg hopping, I personally haven't gotten that -- but something to be aware of. Might be something to test after you get through batch 1 so you minimize the points at which something could go wrong!
By chance can I see your beersmith file for this?
I have a stainless 300 micron mesh tube I was thinking of attaching fishing line to, to be able to pull back out after a few days.. think I would run into any issues with that? I was thinking 2-3oz.
Have any ideas by chance on that OG conundrum?
Thanks for the reply and advice!
As long as you’re blasting everything with CO2 during the addition / removal I would think it’d be fairly safe.
One thing with the filters as opposed to just throwing the hops in is that you’ll get much less efficiency in terms of hop character from the mesh screen. The surface area of the hops in contact with actual liquid is substantially dimensioned because the hops tend to agglomerate in the screen.
As far as the OG — that just seems weird. Wish I could offer any help but i’m not quite sure to be honest.
Makes sense. I was thinking of laying the keg on it's side to give it more surface area. Haven't fully decided yet, but I'll think on it for a couple days.
I ordered a new carboy cap that will ideally fit my 6.5 gal fermenter this time. I just bought 2 last week, unknowing they don't fit all-fits my 5gal just fine, but I guess I have an older style 6.5 so I'm hoping this other cap fits it to do the closed transfer this weekend.
2.1-2.2 is sort of my default. I think of anything lower carb is ideal for these, generally speaking.
After transfer to keg I set it at 24 psi for 48 hrs (temp is 40 degrees) then dial down to 12-14 psi and leave it.
Well I kegged the beer yesterday, ran into some issues when doing so. Here is my update so far.
Next, this is what I was hoping to be able to do after ordering parts:
I believe I had everything setup correctly, but when the beer started to transfer it appeared to stop at the liquid in post, and I am wondering if it got clogged. I have never done a closed transfer, and my worry was about pressurizing the carboy (glass) too much. I didn't want any unneeded mishaps. I tried disconnecting, sanitizing, reconnecting. Nothing seemed to get the beer to transfer into the keg. So I went with plan B, against everything I didn't want, which was opening up the keg lid and siphoning in. This at least let me see where to kill the transfer, since I knew I had more than 5 gallons fermenting. However, I don't know about the oxygen exposure. I'm still upset about this, and I hope it didn't kill the batch. I took a sample prior to this and the beer tastes and looks fantastic.
Trying to remain positive about the mishaps, but we will see. My plan is to let the beer sit at room temp on that 2nd dry hop for 2-3 days, chill the keg for 24 hours on 6/1 or 6/2, on 6/3 carb to 30psi for a day, then set to serving psi (8psi probably) for a few days and try it. Wish me the best, I have had a fair share of hiccups thus far haha.
- Brewed beer on 5-19 (OG was 1.056, but I don't know if this was right. I started at 1.058 post-mash, 8.25 gallons.. Ended with 6.75. Still confused on this is possible).
- Dry hopped 8oz of hops on 5-22 (Day 3, gravity was 1.022)
- Transferred 5 gallons to keg 5-29 (Day 10, gravity was 1.014). Also had about a gallon leftover, bottled 2x12, 2x16, 1x22 bottles.
Next, this is what I was hoping to be able to do after ordering parts:
I believe I had everything setup correctly, but when the beer started to transfer it appeared to stop at the liquid in post, and I am wondering if it got clogged. I have never done a closed transfer, and my worry was about pressurizing the carboy (glass) too much. I didn't want any unneeded mishaps. I tried disconnecting, sanitizing, reconnecting. Nothing seemed to get the beer to transfer into the keg. So I went with plan B, against everything I didn't want, which was opening up the keg lid and siphoning in. This at least let me see where to kill the transfer, since I knew I had more than 5 gallons fermenting. However, I don't know about the oxygen exposure. I'm still upset about this, and I hope it didn't kill the batch. I took a sample prior to this and the beer tastes and looks fantastic.
Trying to remain positive about the mishaps, but we will see. My plan is to let the beer sit at room temp on that 2nd dry hop for 2-3 days, chill the keg for 24 hours on 6/1 or 6/2, on 6/3 carb to 30psi for a day, then set to serving psi (8psi probably) for a few days and try it. Wish me the best, I have had a fair share of hiccups thus far haha.
jpLV
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Sounds like you are going through what we all did when we started brewing this style of IPA. Ive heard mixed results with the fishing line not allowing the keg to seal. I think floss works better but I cant say for sure as I've never tried it. I'd look at it as an experiment to see how you like just leaving the hops in as everyones flavor preference varies.
For the closed transfer flow issue. It seems like you did have a clog somewhere, either dip tube or at the post like you said. With so much dry hop floating around it can be super tough to not run into issues. I've went with a mesh tube that goes over the dip tube and haven't run into a clog since. It might be a little slower because the hops will eventually start impacting the flow but it only adds a couple extra minutes. I now use it for all my beers as the peace of mind is worth it.
Sounds like you planned everything out well. You'll have to let us know how it tastes!
For the closed transfer flow issue. It seems like you did have a clog somewhere, either dip tube or at the post like you said. With so much dry hop floating around it can be super tough to not run into issues. I've went with a mesh tube that goes over the dip tube and haven't run into a clog since. It might be a little slower because the hops will eventually start impacting the flow but it only adds a couple extra minutes. I now use it for all my beers as the peace of mind is worth it.
Sounds like you planned everything out well. You'll have to let us know how it tastes!
Drink it fast
I forgot to mention the reason I backed off the closed transfer is I read not to exceed 5psi on glass carboys.. To prevent creating a glass shrapnel bomb haha. So I got a bit nervous on just how much pressure was building up and decided it was safer, and easier at that point, to do the open transfer-despite the oxidation.
I brewed two NE IPAs last year (didn't have my kegging setup complete), so I bottled both. Used Conan yeast for both. First one was a bit overcarbed, but tasted fine for a short while. 2nd one dropped off fast in color and flavor. So far I have preferred the taste of LA3 to Conan just based off my gravity pulls... This beer has a lot of grapefruit, peach notes. Just a juice bomb, which is what I love. Granted, this is a different recipe and I also changed my method a little along with the yeast, but as of last night, I liked it much better. I was hoping to circumvent the oxidation issues of last year with kegging, but it appears I will need to give this another couple rounds of trial and error. I may need to look into your method to see if that helps.
I have also read about the methods for avoiding clogging in the keg, seems the clear beer floating dip tube may be in my future. I had put a decent amount of money into completing the keg setup as well as a bunch of odds and ends to make brew days easier, so I just didn't want to invest the extra scratch for this batch. But I'll look into it for the next one, which I hope to do in a month or so (translation=I am going to crush this keg). Also, I was going to try some floss right then and there, but all I could find in the house was mint flavored.. I opted out of that introduction of potential off-flavor
jpLV
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Beer looks good. I recently got the clear beer system for my kegs and they have worked out nice. I also got the mesh with them so I could do a second dry hop in the keg and not have to worry about bags or hoppers.
For the closed transfers you really only need a few psi to get things moving so like you said if its not I wouldn't try forcing it with more pressure. I still use PET carboys so I always make sure they have a little give on them. I also don't clamp down on the topper as I figure if something goes weird with the regulator the top would hopefully just pop off. Having to crush this keg so you can brew it again to refine your process isn't the worst thing in the world either.
For the closed transfers you really only need a few psi to get things moving so like you said if its not I wouldn't try forcing it with more pressure. I still use PET carboys so I always make sure they have a little give on them. I also don't clamp down on the topper as I figure if something goes weird with the regulator the top would hopefully just pop off. Having to crush this keg so you can brew it again to refine your process isn't the worst thing in the world either.
I do something very similar but just put a hose from the racking cane into the keg through the top opening. I purge the keg first by pushing out 5 gal of startsan with Co2. Open the top and put the purged hose in (it reaches the bottom) the set the cover over the open hole. 2-3 psi get the beer flowing. I doubt very much that you could break a carboy with a press fit carboy cap on. I have blown mine off before when crimping the discharge (keg)hose trying to fill some bottles after the keg filled. I have not had any noticeable oxidation issues doing it like this. As the beer fills the purged keg the gas is being pushed out and there would be very little O2 from just opening the top. You might not have had enough pressure to start the flow or your relief valve wasn't open. Try it again with water or starsan and figure it out.
That I didn't do. I did fill the keg with star san, ran it through, purged it, filled it with co2 and purged again and left it closed. Before I did the transfer I released the pressure inside, but I didn't unscrew the relief valve or anything.. Could that have been it? I was pushing with around 3psi, I did go up to 5 once it wasn't moving, but that's when I stopped.
Once the keg is cashed, I'll definitely spend some time trying again. I'd be happy if it was as simple as needing to unscrew the relief valve.
jpLV
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Bet thats what it was. I've had that happen to me when I was relieving the pressure as it transferred and forgot as I was messing with something else. If you dont let out the pressure or just leave it unscrewed it wont flow.
Bingo on the poppet, it has to stay open for the co2 to come out so the beer can go in. Remember holding the top of a straw in a glass of soda when you were a kid? You basically did just that. You don’t have to unscrew it though just pull up, turn 90 degrees so that the little ring sits on the edges
I'm both happy it was something simple I overlooked, and kicking myself in the ass at the same time. Ah well. No use in getting hung up on it now, but should have thought of that. Thank you for pointing that out tld6008!
