Transfer from primary to oak barrel

[kgranger]

I am planning on brewing up a golden ale, to be pitched with White Labs WLP655 Belgian Sour Mix 1 at primary. From what I've read, this mix should have enough Brett to age for several months to a year on its own, but my question is: when transferring to my oak barrel for the long age, and siphoning off the primary yeast cake, should there be enough Brett left in suspension to make it over to the barrel and work its magic? Or should I transfer it all, yeast cake included?

 

[RPh_Guy]

The Brett will transfer regardless.

I'd suggest to either primary in the barrel or transfer to the barrel during primary fermentation. Otherwise there's a lot of oxidation/acetic production.

 

[kgranger]

If I were to transfer during primary, how far into fermentation should I shoot for? I’m unsure of starting primary in the barrel as the only place the barrel can rest is in a chilly basement. My conical has temp control, so I figured primary might be best there in the beginning.

 

[RPh_Guy]

OK that changes things a little. Do you know the general temperature of your basement? Would it get warmer at some point in the year?

Assuming it's in the 50s-60s, I would suggest to transfer it a couple days after the end of primary fermentation when the yeast haven't entirely settled yet. A little yeast in suspension can help with the oxidation issue, and a little fine lees in the barrel will help develop flavor.
Brett does like it somewhat warm though, so I don't think you'll get a lot of development is it's too cold throughout the aging period.

FWIW I age my traditional-style sours in the utility room in my basement where the HVAC keeps it relatively warm.

 

[kgranger]

I’d say the basement is around 60s, maybe 70s in the summer, and right near the HVAC as well. I guess I say “chilly” because it feels like that compared to my uninsulated garage that gets in the 90s some days haha

 

[sweetcell]

i would wait until primary is mostly over but you still have a little activity - active yeast will help with any O2 that is added during transfer. i wouldn't transfer the cake on purpose, but i would not be too concerned if some gets sucked up either.

i haven't used Belgian Sour Mix, but in general White Labs' mixed cultures feature very low cell counts. if you have bottles of sours around, you might want to consider pitching some dregs.

 

[kgranger]

Yeah I was thinking some dregs would be good. I’ve never done it before, is there a good ballpark number of bottles for a 15 gal batch?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah I was thinking some dregs would be good. I’ve never done it before, is there a good ballpark number of bottles for a 15 gal batch?

Cell count doesn't matter, if that's what you're asking.

 

[sweetcell]

Yeah I was thinking some dregs would be good. I’ve never done it before, is there a good ballpark number of bottles for a 15 gal batch?

the more the merrier, but 2 or 3 bottles would be good.

how i add dregs:
1) put bottle(s) in fridge for several days, so that everything settles out. the longer the better.
2) pour out some portion of the beer to drink. do so in one motion/one pour, don't kick up the dregs by tilting to pour, turning upright, then tilting again. you can pour out up to 90% of the beer leaving just a little at the bottom, or you can pour out less. hell, you could not drink any and dump the entire beer in.
3) some folks put some alcohol on the opening and flame it, to sterilize... personally, i don't.
4) swirl up the dregs and dump into carboy/barrel/etc.
5) i like to rinse out the bottle and get every last cell in there. i either use cooled boiled water, or use a thief to grab some beer from the carboy/barrel/etc. put the rinse liquid in the bottle, swirl, dump.
6) wish your bugs godspeed, seal up that bad girl and wait.

 

[couchsending]

How big is your barrel? Was it a spirits barrel?

 

[kgranger]

15 gal, used whiskey barrel

 

[henchman24]

How long are you looking to age in the barrel? A 15 gallon barrel, while not as extreme as a 5 gallon, will pick up flavors and oxidize much faster than a full size barrel.

 

[kgranger]

Was estimating a couple months in the barrel, and I’ll take tastes through a nail hole to make sure, then transfer to CO2 purged carboys for extended aging

 

[henchman24]

Was estimating a couple months in the barrel, and I’ll take tastes through a nail hole to make sure, then transfer to CO2 purged carboys for extended aging

Sounds about like the right sort of timing. I'd transfer right when the primary is ending, but there is still some activity. I'd leave behind the yeast cake. There will be all that is needed still in suspension in the beer, and adding dregs too will have more than enough activity in the beer without the yeast cake. Brett can create some interesting flavors from yeast autolysis, but IMO, it simply wouldn't be worth the trouble (mess) to transfer it all over.