Too long in primary??

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PleasantValleyHops

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So i did a imperial stout about 7 weeks ago now and after i brewed i literally have been running now stop busy w work and such. Havent had time for anything of my own it feels like. Am i pushing it w this. Its been in my basement for about a month (52-58) degrees??
I also brewed a "light" beer that same day which is only a 4.5 abv. That also i s still in primary beside the imperial. I think the imperial should be good but just want some reassurance on that. Thanks
 
MAny people on here report leaving beers in fermenters for 2-3 months with zero issues. more than likely you are fine. Again, I'm only rehashing what i've read from others in numerous threads, this is not from my personal experience.
 
I'm sure they're fine. I've left beers in primary for 5-6 weeks with no problems. Others report leaving them for as much as five months. RDWHAHB!
 
The only time I have had an issue with long primaries is when i have let the temperature get too high.

I think you are fine.
 
My beers are a minimum of 1 month in primary. I've done 6 months with no issues.


This is the most discussed topic on here, it has been readily covered. I suggest you read THIS thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic thread. Every discussion, question, answer, citation, etch is in that thread....

To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .
 
Cool. Yea and im anal as hell about being as sterile as possible and keeping everything clean. Im really hoping the temp being pretty good as far as. Ot flucuating a bunch like the rest of my house too
 
I have you beat Revvy, my last year's Barleywine was in the primary for 7 months, and it won a big award. It's now called Das Boot Barleywine. :)

I also do a minimum if 4 weeks with all my beers. I've forgotten some, and left them for 6-8 weeks.
 
homebeerbrewer said:
I have you beat Revvy, my last year's Barleywine was in the primary for 7 months, and it won a big award. It's now called Das Boot Barleywine. :)

I also do a minimum if 4 weeks with all my beers. I've forgotten some, and left them for 6-8 weeks.

Wow! That's crazy. Did you keep your barleywine at a low temp?
 
My beers are a minimum of 1 month in primary. I've done 6 months with no issues.


This is the most discussed topic on here, it has been readily covered. I suggest you read THIS thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic thread. Every discussion, question, answer, citation, etch is in that thread....

To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .

Surely you're just doing the minimum 4 week primary so that you don't have to do anything with the beer right away? I can't think of anything that would happen to the beer in that extra 2-3 weeks in primary that wouldn't happen in the bottle/keg.
 
The yeast produce off flavors during fermentation, like diacetyl, and given enough time, the yeast will reabsorb their byproducts. In the bottle, they have the added sugar to work on, so they don't bother with the other stuff.

Well, take diacetyl for instance. A normal diacetyl rest is 2 days at about 70. You really shouldn't need longer than that for diacetyl. If, on a standard OG beer at least, you need 3 weeks on the yeast to cleanup than I'd argue something is wrong.

EDIT: *an extra three weeks in addition to the initial 1 week it probably took to reach FG
 
Just bottled my American Amber ale after 7 days, actually crashed the fermenter to 45F at day 5. It's perfect.

Don't need to leave your beer in the fermenter for a month if you do everything else right.
 
I used diacetyl as an example. There are other compounds that the yeast reabsorb too.

I believe that the autolysis issue is a myth, and leaving the beer on the yeast cake is actually beneficial to the beer. Try it sometime.

I'm not saying you'll get autolysis in 4 weeks. I'm just saying that a minimum of 4 weeks in primary seems unnecessary. The beer could easily, and probably will, be done before then.
 
Yeah, the beer is most likely done fermenting before 4 weeks, but I have enough of a pipeline that I can wait that long. I've seen improvement in my beer since going with longer primary times, and I believe it's due to the yeast cleaning up after themselves.
 
I believe that the autolysis issue is a myth, and leaving the beer on the yeast cake is actually beneficial to the beer. Try it sometime.

Autolysis might actually be a real concern at multi barrel scale, but effects are undetectable at homebrew scale. Ads someone mentioned, extended primary shouldn't hurt as long as you control temperatures. I'd also add that your fermenter should be impermeable (not a bucket).
 
Well, take diacetyl for instance. A normal diacetyl rest is 2 days at about 70. You really shouldn't need longer than that for diacetyl. If, on a standard OG beer at least, you need 3 weeks on the yeast to cleanup than I'd argue something is wrong.

EDIT: *an extra three weeks in addition to the initial 1 week it probably took to reach FG

Actually, that's for lagers. For ales it's longer.

THIS an other citations are posted in the thread I suggest everyone read earlier.....

Revvy said:
I just dug up some more info on diacetyl that backs this thread up, along with the benefits of letting a beer sit on the yeast cake a bit longer.

I found this article;

"THE ROLE OF DIACETYL IN BEER
By Moritz Kallmeyer"

The Abstract begins...

Diacetyl as a product of fermentation is more characteristic of ales than lagers. Diacetyl is produced early in the fermentation, and then most of it is reabsorbed by the yeast and reduced to flavourless compounds later on. Yeast strains differ markedly in their diacetyl reduction ability. Some ales and a few lagers (such as the famous Pilsner Urquell) contain perceptible amounts of diacetyl, but as a rule modern brewers consider it as a fault. This is because certain bacterial infections and other errors in brewing technique will increase diacetyl levels resulting in unacceptable beer aroma and flavour profile. This parameter thus serves as a quality check. However, it is important to remember that diacetyl flavour is a natural by-product of yeast fermentation, and in some beer styles it is an optional or even required flavour component in low amounts.

From here....


Drayman's Brewery and Distillery

There's two methods of rests listed in the Kallmeyer article...one for ales and warmer beers....interesting.

Maturation of beer flavour requires the presence of yeast as a catalyst. There are many methods of finishing that have the sole objective of prolonging the contact of beer with yeast after primary fermentation is completed. I want to emphasize that a diacetyl rest with most of the yeast lying at the bottom of the tank and not enough in suspension is of no use. Most lager breweries, especially those that use Weinhenstephan 308 or similar “diacetyl producing yeast’s” employ a long diacetyl rest, in order to minimize diacetyl in the finished beer.

Method 1
If a very cold primary fermentation was used it involves allowing the beer temperature to rise from the controlled primary fermentation temperature of about 10°C to 15-18°C when the primary fermentation is coming to an end. Normally, the time is determined by the attenuation of the beer. If, for example the wort starting gravity was 1050 and the expected terminal gravity is 1010, then the diacetyl rest would be commenced when the beer has attenuated to about SG 1023 when two-thirds of the total fermentable material in the wort has been consumed. The diacetyl rest normally lasts for 48-72 hours, until primary fermentation is over and secondary fermentation is under way. At this time the temperature is lowered when the more traditional method is followed, probably 1°C per day until the lagering temperature of 0-1°C is reached.

Method 2
If a warmer primary fermentation temperature was used for ale or lager the diacetyl rest involves either lowering the beer temperature 2 or 3°C at the end of primary fermentation or keeping it constant for up to 6 days. In lager yeast strains with low diacetyl production it is common practise nowadays to employ a short diacetyl rest followed by centrifuging to remove excess yeast and then crash cooling to 0°C. When brewing ales, that should have very low diacetyl levels especially German Ales like Alt and Kölsch, the implications are to not use highly flocculent yeast and to allow an extended primary fermentation, albeit at cooler temperatures until sufficiently low diacetyl levels are reached. Yeast that settles in the cone is still removed on a daily basis.

Interesting for ALES one of the recomendations is to LOWER the temps a bit...or leave them at the same temp for 6 days...learns something new everyday...I'm going to have to try the cool rest.

It also backs up the idea of leaving beers on the yeastcake for awhile longer to allow the yeasts to clean up after themselves.

:mug:


All this stuff has been thoroughly covered in the Jamil/Palmer thread long before......
 
Surely you're just doing the minimum 4 week primary so that you don't have to do anything with the beer right away? I can't think of anything that would happen to the beer in that extra 2-3 weeks in primary that wouldn't happen in the bottle/keg.

No, the reason I and many folks do it is because we believe, as covered over and over and over, is that it improves our beers.

ven PALMER WAAAAYYYYY back in the first edition and despite the autolysis fear, said this.....

How To Brew said:
Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

Surely if you'd read the thread I recommended, you would understand what were saying.......without needing to repeat ourselves.
 
It's not a question of understanding...it's a question of not agreeing, based on what I've read (and experience).
 
Also, can you cite the 2 or 3 days diacetyl rest is only for lagers? Surely, if anything, ales would require less time for a diacetyl rest, since they're at a higher temperature.
 
It's not a question of understanding...it's a question of not agreeing, based on what I've read (and experience).

There's plenty of folks who have felt like you, for years until they tried it, then the often ended up starting threads like this- Apologies to Revvy

For everything you've read and experienced, others have read and experienced differently. Even BYO has covered it, and many of their recipes, as well as a few kit manufacturers have started to reflect this shift. So it's really up to you what you chose to believe....We've covered it to death, and plenty of nay sayers have become converts....

*Shrug*

You do what you do, and we'll do what we do. But at least understand and respect that it's no longer a fringe thing, and not done out of laziness, but we believe it has merit.....
 
There's plenty of folks who have felt like you, for years until they tried it, then the often ended up starting threads like this- Apologies to Revvy

For everything you've read and experienced, others have read and experienced differently. Even BYO has covered it, and many of their recipes, as well as a few kit manufacturers have started to reflect this shift. So it's really up to you what you chose to believe....We've covered it to death, and plenty of nay sayers have become converts....

*Shrug*

Wow, you're full of yourself.

EDIT: Btw, I never advocated a secondary. I don't secondary, unless you count the keg as a secondary.
 
Wow, you're full of yourself.

EDIT: Btw, I never advocated a secondary. I don't secondary, unless you count the keg as a secondary.

How am I full of myself? Because I posted a thread where someone who vehemently disagreed with me later apologized? It was just an example of someone believing what you evidently, and experiencing what we've been talking about and changing their mind....

What you might not realize though is that I was one of the first on here to question the whole long primary/autolysis stuff, and did a lot of the initial research into it, and am one of the biggest proponents of it. And consequently I took a lot of the heat from trolls who just absolutely hated anyone dare question the dreaded autolysis monster. I'm not saying this from ego, that's just how it is. I'm just glad to see that the greater brewing community has started to accept it as a viable method of brewing. It's all about making great beer, and it's all about developing our own processes. My beer has vastly improved, as have my contest scores by doing this simple thing.....
 
I used diacetyl as an example. There are other compounds that the yeast reabsorb too.

I believe that the autolysis issue is a myth, and leaving the beer on the yeast cake is actually beneficial to the beer. Try it sometime.

I left a munich lager in primary for 8 weeks. Clearest, cleanest beer i have made to date.
 
How am I full of myself? Because I posted a thread where someone who vehemently disagreed with me later apologized? It was just an example of someone believing what you evidently, and experiencing what we've been talking about and changing their mind....

What you might not realize though is that I was one of the first on here to question the whole long primary/autolysis stuff, and did a lot of the initial research into it, and am one of the biggest proponents of it. And consequently I took a lot of the heat from trolls who just absolutely hated anyone dare question the dreaded autolysis monster. I'm not saying this from ego, that's just how it is. I'm just glad to see that the greater brewing community has started to accept it as a viable method of brewing. It's all about making great beer, and it's all about developing our own processes. My beer has vastly improved, as have my contest scores by doing this simple thing.....

Maybe you should read my posts. I never said you had to worry about autolysis. My complaint is with the minimum of 4 weeks rule. In the Palmer and Jamil thread Denny, remilard, and others (all knowledgeable brewers afaict) mention that they see no need for a minimum of 4 weeks in primary. Sure it won't hurt (and might help some beers), but I agree that if a beer requires 4 weeks in the primary then something is off with the process (This is paraphrasing remilard.). I'm highly skeptical that you couldn't get away with less and have your beer be just as good. I'm not going to just take your word for it.

EDIT: Also, people like Tasty McDole (He won the longshot competition.) regularly make great beer within 2 weeks time.
 
Maybe you should read my posts. I never said you had to worry about autolysis. My complaint is with the minimum of 4 weeks rule. In the Palmer and Jamil thread Denny, remilard, and others (all knowledgeable brewers afaict) mention that they see no need for a minimum of 4 weeks in primary. Sure it won't hurt (and might help some beers), but I agree that if a beer requires 4 weeks in the primary then something is off with the process. I'm highly skeptical that you couldn't get away with less and have your beer be just as good. I'm not going to just take your word for it.

Actually Denny has mentioned in other threads that he now does a long primary.

But noone, is saying just to take my word for it, or anyone's for that matter.. I have said it repeatedly, try it for yourself. And if you chose not to, then don't bash or say it has no merit if you haven't even tried it for yourself.

That's all.
 
Actually Denny has mentioned in other threads that he now does a long primary.

But noone, is saying just to take my word for it, or anyone's for that matter.. I have said it repeatedly, try it for yourself. And if you chose not to, then don't bash or say it has no merit if you haven't even tried it for yourself.

That's all.

I haven't gone through the entire thread. But in the middle of the thread he said he'd gone to long primary for a couple of years, and then had gone back to a secondary. I suppose I'll look more. However, I still think it's silly (and potentially doing them a disservice, in that they could have had good beer earlier) to advocate to people that they should do a minimum of x weeks in the primary, when clearly it's possible to make great beer with less time in the primary. What kind of current experiments have you done? I'd be interested to see your result if you did, say, a 5 gallon batch and split it amongst two fermenters, and did the primary for 2 weeks for one and 4 weeks for the other, while still aging both for the same amount of time (and bottle conditioning them both for the same time).
 
Many people that use shorter time in primary dont speak up in this kind of thread
This is a long primary forum.
4-5 days ferment + 6 days cleanup, yes i see that is atleast 4 weeks

Normal strenght OG 1.060 I have done 30g batches and botteling from 2 to 8 weeks, and I still havnt found anyone who can tell the difference
 
A beer left in primary for a long time will taste different from a beer that utilized a secondary (and aged for the same total time). Yeast is not inert and having a large volume of yeast around will impact the flavor. That is what the oft cited BYO article found. Most people who tested the brews could taste a difference between the beers produced by the two methods. However, they split over which they preferred. Some preferred the primary only, and some preferred the one that used a secondary.

The point of the study was to show that it was fine to leave your beer in primary longer without the fear of getting strong off-flavors. It was not an attempt to prove one method is better than the other. They did not prove, nor say, that we all should be leaving our beer on the yeast longer. They just said it was fine to do so. It is up to the individual to decide which they like

I have used both methods, and for the styles I brew (lots of lagers) I prefer to get my beer off of the yeast promptly once fermentation is complete. I condition (secondary) my beers in kegs
 

:D my maths isnt good enough for you? :D

I do longer primarys too, but i dont see a need for more then two weeks on most normal beers
And for hefe i prefer even shorter

Beer will develop and mature in bottles too, but it takes much longer then leaving it on the yeast
 
I believe that longer should be better but for many of us just not really practical. I suppose I could buy some beer to drink while I left my home brew on the yeast longer but I feel even a medium home brew is better than a store bought brew.

Yes I need another fermenter so I can have more than two batches going
 
Well this time of yr i do find myself busier than normal. I guess since i do have 4 kegs on tap i wasnt as worried about it. But i do have 5 empty kegs to get some beer in. I just need to atleast get that light beer off. But i can barely keep up w this thread now!!
 
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