Sorry, I was lumping some things together. (why I am not a scientist!) Fast cooling to 176F then I guess a little slower might help get rid of a little more of the DMS that might have been created.
Besides thermal stress, the boil length mainly affects two things: hop bitterness (utilization), and DMS removal.I know if I boil longer it's not a problem but what if I boil less than my hour boil-off time? Hoping to be close to the correct time but lets say I'm only boiling for 45 minutes? Any issues with that.
I am unsure about exactly how short is too short. Folks do short and shoddy brews, so everything is on the table these days. But, most do not go under the 60 min mark. Especially if you might have a lot of pilsner malt. Using a software like Beersmith really helps in this situation.
Hop bittering could go a little low with a shorter boil. That might not be particularly critical with your Scotch Ale. Boiling off a little extra and having a higher OG might not be bad for that style either.
Besides thermal stress, the boil length mainly affects two things: hop bitterness (utilization), and DMS removal.
Boiling hops for 45 minutes isn't too different from boiling them for 60 minutes, but any less and you'll start to see decreased bitterness and possibly increased flavor.
Speaking from experience, 45 minutes can definitely work with regard to DMS, but that'll depend on the recipe (e.g. amount of pilsner malt), and pH, and also the system because the amount of circulation matters.
I guess I was mostly wondering what y'all thought about the effects of boil-off rate and what it does to the finished beer. It seems that some people believe even what is considered an average rate (1-1.5gph) can have detrimental effects on finished beer such as poor head retention, mouthfeel, and shelf stability.
Taste???I would love to see what type of boil they employ in a mega brewery that makes the watered down stuff like Budweiser, and their numbers, since in order to make that beer have perfect balanced taste and be consistent as it is they are probably doing things right.
Thanks for the links and info. The Wiki points to the cooling stage as being what is most important. DMS always gets associated with boiling but boiling is going to happen no matter what and the DMS evaporates quite easily at brewing temperatures. SMM is really the culprit and its breakdown is more associated with boiling temps.
Key takeaways:
SMM is largely not broken down into DMS until the boil
High pH in the boil helps this conversion
Reinforces the practice of higher pH through the mash & boil and lowering pH right at the end of the boil
DMS will be evaporating all the way through until sub-99F is reached (huge boil not needed)
Chill to 140F and below quickly as SMM is still being converted but DMS also needs motion to be "pushed" out of the wort
See my response to that post. That reason is specifically why I corrected him.You're last point is problematic if you want to whirlpool hop additions.
See my response to that post. That reason is specifically why I corrected him.
This topic is quite interesting to me...
Do you guys measure your pre-boil volume RIGHT before your boil? And do you guys measure your post-boil volume RIGHT after boil is over, or right before you transfer to fermenter?
According to BeerSmith's settings there is a 4% difference between cold and hot wort.
Good point.This topic is quite interesting to me...
Do you guys measure your pre-boil volume RIGHT before your boil? And do you guys measure your post-boil volume RIGHT after boil is over, or right before you transfer to fermenter?
According to BeerSmith's settings there is a 4% difference between cold and hot wort.
Just to add 2 cents to an already long thread, I have been doing gentle boils for over a decade. I'm totally unconvinced by people who say you need a "vigorous" boil for a good hot break, hop utilization, and elimination of DMS. IMO, Keeping the wort at 212F and moving are key. Wort jumping out of the kettle isn't key.
I'm here to just say how I love people citing Bamforth from years prior.
Oh's hes said it more than once!To be fair, Bamforth did use the term "vigorous boil" in a video once. It was, like, an OFFICIAL INTERVIEW.
And the beauty of it is, whether your wort is just barely simmering or is jumping out of the kettle with a ludicrous level of vigor, it's still at 212F.Just to add 2 cents to an already long thread, I have been doing gentle boils for over a decade. I'm totally unconvinced by people who say you need a "vigorous" boil for a good hot break, hop utilization, and elimination of DMS. IMO, Keeping the wort at 212F and moving are key. Wort jumping out of the kettle isn't key.
To be fair, Bamforth did use the term "vigorous boil" in a video once. It was, like, an OFFICIAL INTERVIEW.
Or check his current position of employmentPeople owe it to themselves to get Bamforth's "Freshness". If you want a handle on the man's opinions currently, it's a great read and has a lot of good info in it.
And the beauty of it is, whether your wort is just barely simmering or is jumping out of the kettle with a ludicrous level of vigor, it's still at 212F.
For some reason people seem to think a hard boil is getting that liquid hotter, but it isn't because, well, physics and stuff.
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