The Theoretical Minimum (of Beer)

[kolektiv]

Hi folks,

I'm planning on experimenting with doing some very small batch brewing, and I wondered if there is a theoretical minimum volume beyond which brewing simply... won't work. As far as I can tell, as long as things are proportionally correct (water to grain to sugars, sugars to yeast, etc.) things should work, in theory, pretty much forever. It reminds me that a long time ago a friend bet me that I couldn't brew a single pint. While I'm not quite that crazy, I can't see any reason you couldn't, provided you got the calculations right...

Any counter-arguments?

 

[Dgallo]

Hi folks,

I'm planning on experimenting with doing some very small batch brewing, and I wondered if there is a theoretical minimum volume beyond which brewing simply... won't work. As far as I can tell, as long as things are proportionally correct (water to grain to sugars, sugars to yeast, etc.) things should work, in theory, pretty much forever. It reminds me that a long time ago a friend bet me that I couldn't brew a single pint. While I'm not quite that crazy, I can't see any reason you couldn't, provided you got the calculations right...

Any counter-arguments?

A hoped yeast starter will produce one pint of beer

 

[khannon]

Not that small batches won't work.. I've found it is about the same amount of work/time to make 10g of beer as it is to make 5g.. Not bottling anymore..
So, given that would you rather have 5g or 10g of a tasty beer? I played around with some 1g BiaB recipes, and while it was fun, still the time vs reward seems to be at 10g for me. Tho I do have space/kegs/dispensing etc..

I suppose the min might be around the sugars from 1 grain of malted barley or possibly 1 hop flower.

 

[Immocles]

I immediately thought of this thread.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/so-i-brewed-a-shot-of-beer.672478/#post-8809876

 

[V-Fib]

Not that small batches won't work.. I've found it is about the same amount of work/time to make 10g of beer as it is to make 5g.. Not bottling anymore..
So, given that would you rather have 5g or 10g of a tasty beer? I played around with some 1g BiaB recipes, and while it was fun, still the time vs reward seems to be at 10g for me. Tho I do have space/kegs/dispensing etc..

I suppose the min might be around the sugars from 1 grain of malted barley or possibly 1 hop flower.

Never thought of going smaller, Dgallo hit my thought process. But it in theory I'm sure you can find a way to take 10 kernels of base malt with 2 kernels of specialty grains with dusting of hops to make a shot of beer.

 

[khannon]

reminds me of

 

[McKnuckle]

The practical limit is in finding suitable vessels and containers for brewing, fermenting, and serving, that work for a very small batch.

 

[kolektiv]

Excellent point. Yes, that's very much what I'm finding. Beyond a certain point, even things like taking a stock pot and modifying it become a nightmare because nothing really fits. Heating elements, HERMs coils, etc. are all problematic, and even putting bulkhead fittings in to something that small is difficult because of the small diameter and therefore high curvature you need to try and clamp. Genuinely tricky! Investigating some possibilities at the moment...

 

[bracconiere]

well apparently, one barley kernel weighs 65 mg....but when i tried to put .000014 into beer smith. it rounds everything to the nearest hundredth. so using beer smith the smallest batch i would be able to do would be 0.01 gallons....

 

[bwible]

From a cost standpoint, yeast is your biggest cost when brewing small batches. I’m paying $7.95 + $1 for an ice pack + shipping for liquid yeast. Even dry yeast costs about $5 now.

I try to always use yeast at least 2 or 3 times. This works at a 5 gallon level and smaller batches down to 3 gallons like I brew. At some point, the cost becomes prohibitive.

Do you want to spend more money on ingredients to make beer + spend your time when you can just buy beer for less?

 

[bwible]

I’ve found it is about the same amount of work/time to make 10g of beer as it is to make 5g..
So, given that would you rather have 5g or 10g of a tasty beer?

This is totally true. And even from a cost perspective its probably cheaper and more economical to brew the bigger batch.

The issue is the output. In my case, I’m the only one who drinks beer in my house and it would take me a long time to go through 10 gallons of beer. That’s roughly (100) 12 oz servings. 4+ cases of the same beer. It would probably spoil before I could drink it. I also like variety and don’t want to drink just one beer.

This is why I don’t brew bigger batches

 

[jddevinn]

I've made a 1/8L starter as the first step in reviving some dregs. No I didn't carb and drink it........ but if I had a small enough bottle I could have.

 

[amber-ale]

Excellent point. Yes, that's very much what I'm finding. Beyond a certain point, even things like taking a stock pot and modifying it become a nightmare because nothing really fits. Heating elements, HERMs coils, etc. are all problematic, and even putting bulkhead fittings in to something that small is difficult because of the small diameter and therefore high curvature you need to try and clamp. Genuinely tricky! Investigating some possibilities at the moment...

then go simple...use BIAB or if you have a very small batch, use a strainer at the end. small batches can be cooled in a sink of cold water, and heated/mashed on the stove in a pot you already have. bottle it a flip top bottle.
so the smallest you can do would depend on the smallest you can bottle. unless you carbonate with a soda stream....

 

[_BullDog_]

Or extract with steeping grains. If that is good scale up and switch to all-grain

 

[kolektiv]

I could keep it simple but... where's the fun in that?! Slightly more seriously, for me the fun is experimentation, creation, of both beer and brewery - I have a toddler and fairly sporty hobby, so I actually don't drink a great deal! Having more beer for the same effort doesn't actually help me - it'll probably end up down the drain, and I can't stand to think of wasting beer. So actually, tiny batches, low volume/high effort though they may be, is actually fine for me. It also gives me a chance to ferment quite a few small batches in parallel and experiment with variations, etc. I've found a few interesting things on here since posting this, including a whole little subculture of 1 gallon brewing, which is awesome!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Consider brewing batch sizes that produce a 6-pack, 12-pack, or 24-pack.

"one gallon brewers unite" (starting in about 2018) has a number of interesting ideas in maximizing yield with 1 a gal carboy. Personally, I use 1 gal carboys for six packs, 2 gal pails for 12-packs and 3 gal carboys for those larger batches.

For a "practical" Theoretical Minimum (of Beer), maybe the initial goal is to brew for a single 7 oz bottle...

 

[amber-ale]

I could keep it simple but... where's the fun in that?! Slightly more seriously, for me the fun is experimentation, creation, of both beer and brewery - I have a toddler and fairly sporty hobby, so I actually don't drink a great deal! Having more beer for the same effort doesn't actually help me - it'll probably end up down the drain, and I can't stand to think of wasting beer. So actually, tiny batches, low volume/high effort though they may be, is actually fine for me. It also gives me a chance to ferment quite a few small batches in parallel and experiment with variations, etc. I've found a few interesting things on here since posting this, including a whole little subculture of 1 gallon brewing, which is awesome!

offer to trade beer for babysitting.....

 

[amber-ale]

what about using (unused) organic chemistry glassware for brew/mash/cool/fermenting?
after all, distilling/separating etc is what the glassware is made for, just on a tiny scale

 

[Bramling Cross]

If you're brewing at the smallest possible scale, you'll first need to isolate a single yeast cell.

Then it gets tricky. You'll need to feed your isolated yeast cell with individual molecules of your wort in proportion to their population within your targeted wort. This shouldn't be an insurmountable obstacle provided you have a journeyman's knowledge of nanotechnology fabrication and the appropriate tools in your garage. If not, you can usually find something on Craigslist.

 

[kolektiv]

what about using (unused) organic chemistry glassware for brew/mash/cool/fermenting?
after all, distilling/separating etc is what the glassware is made for, just on a tiny scale

That's one of the options I've considered, it's a good idea. The problems I've found are all around the fact that you can't then modify those vessels, so you're left trying to do everything externally (and also that they max out at about 5000ml for all practical purposes). So you're restricted in terms of size, and also you'll have to heat externally, measure temperature using probes from above etc. It also then becomes very difficult to pump without bottom of vessel taps - no gravity feed to pump prime, although I looked at things like peristaltic pumps as an alternative.

My current most promising approach is fabricating some square section stainless steel vessels - you can then use all of the normal fittings (like weldless bulkhead fittings) while still having a low and manageable volume.

 

[bwible]

I remember reading an article years ago about brewing tiny batches in the office using the office coffee maker and fermenting a pint at a time in small jars in the filing cabinet. I’m pretty sure it was written as humor. Can’t recall what magazine it was in or where I got it. I made a copy and hung it up in my cubicle at the time, all my co-workers already knew I brewed beer. I remember it was there about a day before my manager at the time came by as I came in the next day and told me I had to take it down. Good times.

[Edit] I found it! Brewing Techniques Nov/Dec 1998 issue. Talks about scaling your 5 gallon recipe down to 1 pint (1/40 of the batch).

 

[amber-ale]

maybe the smallest practical size is the smallest bottle size that can be carbonated = a 500(?) ml stubby and a crimp on lid. or a 250ml coke bottle(?)
because you cant have beer without bubbles and cant have bubbles a bottle/contain that can withstand carbonation pressures

 

[amber-ale]

but if you DO invent a teeny tiny set up, I would love to see a picture of it

 

[_BullDog_]

I started with 1 gal brewing and enjoyed it and was a great way to try more styles.... may have to try splitting a few batches now...

typically got 8-9 12 oz bottles or 3- 32oz bottles with a couple 12 oz ones

 

[NGD]

@kolektiv I’m in the same boat more or less. I went from 5gal to 1.5gal batches due to other sports/hobbies taking up time and not having the desire to drink that much brew. Smaller batches work better for me. I get to experiment more and it actually is faster since I’m heating up a smaller volume. I’ve also incorporated kvieks for certain styles to shorten fermentation times.

Best of luck on your micro-brew endeavors.