American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[LCBA]

I happened to see this youtube video and around the 22 minute mark, he mentions "yeast soaking up hop flavor" and how too much yeast can be a problem. I've never heard of this before, has anyone experienced or experimented with this?

 

[Dgallo]

I happened to see this youtube video and around the 22 minute mark, he mentions "yeast soaking up hop flavor" and how too much yeast can be a problem. I've never heard of this before, has anyone experienced or experimented with this?

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on

 

[beervoid]

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on

it seems to be a double edged sword, if not enough yeast in suspension you can also get undesirables. I forget which panel but in one panel they where speaking about dryhopping after fuge resulting in garbage smell beer.

 

[Dgallo]

it seems to be a double edged sword, if not enough yeast in suspension you can also get undesirables. I forget which panel but in one panel they where speaking about dryhopping after fuge resulting in garbage smell beer.

if you find it, I would love to read up on that. Obviously we can’t even get remotely close to CF a beer but I’d be interested in the design of the experience and the outcomes

 

[mrcastellino]

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on

Although as a counter point, many breweries still like to dry hop with ~ 1 degree plato left in active fermentation and are able to achieve excellent aroma. Perhaps the additional oxygen scrubbing occurring from the yeast offsets to a degree any aroma loss from yeast in suspension. Either way, it seems to be an example of competing goals.

 

[Dgallo]

Although as a counter point, many breweries still like to dry hop with ~ 1 degree plato left in active fermentation and are able to achieve excellent aroma. Perhaps the additional oxygen scrubbing occurring from the yeast offsets to a degree any aroma loss from yeast in suspension. Either way, it seems to be an example of competing goals.

All breweries make decision based on logistics for their systems, capabilities, and price points . My local who makes very solid IPAs, add their dry hops with 2-2.5*p (roughly 8 points in sg left), starts crashing and closes it up. For his system this allows him to rouse the hops, naturally carbonate, and get a level of aroma and flavor they are happy with it. Also helps from a cost perspective

And I know a local whale that waits til ferm is complete. Preforms some cone dumps, then dryhops with a hop cannon, and begins to crash. They will rouse with co2 as well.

We aren’t worried about profit margins as homebrewers so we do have some liberties breweries do not.

 

[beervoid]

if you find it, I would love to read up on that. Obviously we can’t even get remotely close to CF a beer but I’d be interested in the design of the experience and the outcomes

found it


The funny thing is, I've heard some australian hype brewers pushing a new dryhopping technique that is exactly that procedure, fuge the beer clean then dryhop. forgot how they called it.

 

[Fergal]

They call it clean fusion. I was thinking the same thing. Brewery is called one drop. They make some great beers to be fair but seem determined to coin the next DDH or hdhc or whatever.

 

[beervoid]

They call it clean fusion. I was thinking the same thing. Brewery is called one drop. They make some great beers to be fair but seem determined to coin the next DDH or hdhc or whatever.

Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste

 

[ihavenonickname]

@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.

 

[mrcastellino]

@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.

that was my thought…just replace the centrifuge with cold crashing and fining.

Cold crash in fermentor…fine…dump yeast or transfer off. Dry hop…cold crash…fine.

 

[elproducto]

I think I'm going to switch to biofine. In starting to feel like gelatin strips a ton of hol character.

I brewed an all Mosaic wcipa and pre findings it was incredible hop bomb. After finings it lost a fair bit of flavor and aroma but was brilliantly clear.

My closed transfer process is tight, so I know that's not the problem.

 

[beervoid]

I think I'm going to switch to biofine. In starting to feel like gelatin strips a ton of hol character.

I brewed an all Mosaic wcipa and pre findings it was incredible hop bomb. After finings it lost a fair bit of flavor and aroma but was brilliantly clear.

My closed transfer process is tight, so I know that's not the problem.

New West coast style is also a bit hazy these days.

 

[Dgallo]

New West coast style is also a bit hazy these days.

I feel it’s quite rare that they have a haze to them. They aren’t all brilliantly clear but def pretty much. That said I have had some modern west from fidens that were hazy as hell, but I also think that’s mainly them trying to get cans on the shelf’s to keep up with demand

 

[Dgallo]

@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.

I do not know as I’ve never tried but I’m assuming it would have a similar effect. my only concerns with this practice would be the additional transfer increasing o2 risks and if you do rack to dryhop, I’d be worried some of the biofine would go back in solution and pull the dryhops down immediately. That said you could always rouse if/when possible

 

[beervoid]

I feel it’s quite rare that they have a haze to them. They aren’t all brilliantly clear but def pretty much. That said I have had some modern west from fidens that were hazy as hell, but I also think that’s mainly them trying to get cans on the shelf’s to keep up with demand

How would you define this haze?
Even stone would have some of the haze im talking about back in the days.
I mean it is still clear but if you watch closely it has small particles in it.

 

[Deka22]

Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste

This is amazing

 

[Fergal]

Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste

Yeah I've had their "clean fusion" beers. I mean, they are one of the best ipa brewers in Australia so their beers are usually pretty solid. Haven't been able to do a side by side comparison to see how much better their beers are with this process but what I can say is that I wasn't rushing out to try and do it myself. To me it's just an extension of what I currently do anyway by dropping all the yeast out before dry hopping. I use a fermzilla so I can remove the collection tub and have pretty clean beer to dry hop with. It would make a good brulosophy experiment though....

 

[spersichilli]

I’ve been on a kick brewing these, this is one I did back in January for my “6th anniversary” of homebrewing. West Coast Triple IPA, 6 different hops dry hopped around 8lb/bbl. Probably my favorite west coast I’ve done, I’ve been playing around with different ways to add a subtle clean maltiness without using crystal and I’ve settled on using about 5-10% Vienna in most of mine. This hop combo is awesome as well, the mosaic and Simcoe are the perfect old/new blend and the NZ hops play off of them nicely (Nectaron is a perfect west coast IPA hop, better than NE in my opinion). The Nelson CGX leaned dank here so have earmarked it for exclusively WCIPA. My only change for next time is pumping that IBU up to 130/140, I think a more firm bitterness would round this out nicely. Picture is actually from my last can that I opened in April (so was like 2-3 mos old), color is good there but it was a touch lighter at packaging. This got a couple medals, a silver and a bronze in DIPA categories, the only real knock was that the bitterness was a little too soft - I also don't think judges appreciate NZ hops in "American IPA" type categories in competitions as much as I do when drinking WCIPA but this was more brewed for my palate/drinking experience than to fit BJCP.

OG: 1.086
FG: 1.010
ABV: 10.2%
Calculated IBU: 108
Yeast: WLP001

GRAIN
90% 2 row
5% Vienna
5% Dextrose

HOPS
1oz CTZ (44 ibu) at 60
1.5 oz CTZ (41 ibu) at 20
WP: 2oz Nectaron, 2oz Simcoe, 20g Mosaic Incognito (30 mins at 165ish - mosaic incognito was dip hopped with the NP method - approx 21 ibu total)

DH: 6oz Simcoe, 6oz Mosaic, 4oz Nectaron, 3oz Strata CGX, 3oz Nelson CGX, 2oz Columbus lupomax. Approx 36 hours at 40ish degrees, agitated 2-3 times. This was done post fermentation off of the yeast. Added my biofine in with the dry hop to prevent having to open up the fermenter/keg multiple times.

Water was 300:50 SO4:Cl (with 10ppm mg), adjusted mash to 5.2 and then knockout at 5.0 with phosphoric

 

[Fergal]

I'm en route to the US from Australia as we speak. Nola & NYC. Does anyone have any recommendations for me in terms of breweries to try that are doing this style (and IPAs in general) well. I know there is not as much of a craft beer scene in New Orleans but New York should be a different story I presume. I will be in Brooklyn/Manhattan for a day and then upstate to Pine Hill. Any recommendations appreciated!

 

[Dgallo]

I'm en route to the US from Australia as we speak. Nola & NYC. Does anyone have any recommendations for me in terms of breweries to try that are doing this style (and IPAs in general) well. I know there is not as much of a craft beer scene in New Orleans but New York should be a different story I presume. I will be in Brooklyn/Manhattan for a day and then upstate to Pine Hill. Any recommendations appreciated!

These are all solid.
Brooklyn
Other half, Grimm, king county brewers collective (KCBC),

Queens
Finback, singlecut.

 

[Fergal]

Thanks mate. Yeah I've been to Grimm & Other Half which we're both great. I still remember looking around in shock as people we swilling 10.5% pints of triple IPA on a Sunday afternoon!

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Finnback does a great job.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Thanks mate. Yeah I've been to Grimm & Other Half which we're both great. I still remember looking around in shock as people we swilling 10.5% pints of triple IPA on a Sunday afternoon!

Yeah, here in the US you have to double check that the Pale Ale on the board is not 6.5% ABV. On my recent trip to NZ, there was always a 5% Hazy Pale Ales or two on tap, but it is a style that is almost non-existent here. It seems that the only thing that sells better than a 8% IPA, is a 9.5% IPA.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thanks mate. Yeah I've been to Grimm & Other Half which we're both great. I still remember looking around in shock as people we swilling 10.5% pints of triple IPA on a Sunday afternoon!

Don't forget US pints are smaller, they're not far off an Aussie schooner.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I would recommend Harlem hops. They carry fidens and root and branch. A little pricy but well worth it.

 

[spersichilli]

I'm en route to the US from Australia as we speak. Nola & NYC. Does anyone have any recommendations for me in terms of breweries to try that are doing this style (and IPAs in general) well. I know there is not as much of a craft beer scene in New Orleans but New York should be a different story I presume. I will be in Brooklyn/Manhattan for a day and then upstate to Pine Hill. Any recommendations appreciated!

Honestly I think in NYC the most efficient use of your time is going to be hitting beer bars vs breweries. You'll get a wider variety of stuff and NYC has a higher concentration of great beer bars than pretty much anywhere else. Beer Street (2 locations), Harlem Hops, Bierwax, Torst, Gold Star, Beer Run, As Is, Blind Tiger just to name a few. They don't use untappd as much for taplists there for some reason, most places use BeerMenus, just a heads up

 

[Fergal]

Yeah, here in the US you have to double check that the Pale Ale on the board is not 6.5% ABV. On my recent trip to NZ, there was always a 5% Hazy Pale Ales or two on tap, but it is a style that is almost non-existent here. It seems that the only thing that sells better than a 8% IPA, is a 9.5% IPA.

This is true. I actually really like the 5.5% DDH hazy pale ale style. I find it more of a challenge to brew too because everything has got to be properly balanced or the mouthfeel is way off. But I digress!

 

[Fergal]

Honestly I think in NYC the most efficient use of your time is going to be hitting beer bars vs breweries. You'll get a wider variety of stuff and NYC has a higher concentration of great beer bars than pretty much anywhere else. Beer Street (2 locations), Harlem Hops, Bierwax, Torst, Gold Star, Beer Run, As Is, Blind Tiger just to name a few. They don't use untappd as much for taplists there for some reason, most places use BeerMenus, just a heads up

This is a good call and thanks for the list. My mate lives in Brooklyn and has taken me to a few good spots including Torst. I had one of those moments that live long in the memory there - trying my first alchemist heady topper well and truly buzzed whilst listening to Marty Robbins sing big Iron. He has mentioned Blind Tiger too. Interestingly our best beers of the day were in Torst and were from Fox Farm - they were standouts.