The Lager Jacket

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I think it's very cool device! I also think that not everyone here would get use out of it. But I think that it has it's place.

For me, I now have a freezer that (cross fingers) I will be making into a lagering chest. But that will only work well for one type of beer - Lager. If I wanted to make an ale, I'd have to either get another fridge/freezer, or mess around with swamp cooler.

With one of these, I could lager in the freezer AND ferment a batch of Ale in the house.

I had actually recently started studying the potential for using peltiers for a single bucket fermenting chamber. I think that idea has potential, but for me to get off the shelf parts, the prices was not much less than buying a small fridge and a controller. The real unique feature would have been the small footprint.

So, yeah, if that price were around $100, and could get down to 32-ish, I think it could be a winner. As it is, I think most would like it under $100 and then it would really be bought for Ales.

Don't forget, many of the people who homebrew beer are also into it for the DIY aspect.
 
Yeah, I like the fact that it doesn't take up much room. I was looking at some way to keep a keg at cellar temperatures, because I want to install a beer engine. The problem is, I don't really have a lot of room left.
 
aaronwalls said:
In which case the feedback here, unless we can get it down to 32F, it won't be as valuable to this community.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, 32F isn't the only thing I would consider it for. I just wouldn't pay over $100 for something that only does primary temps.

An ale version that could keep a steady fermentation temperature at an affordable price would also be a gold mine, but again, most people have low-cost ways of doing this already, so you would have to sell for the right price.

My set-up already allows for me to easily keep ale temps, and the footprint is the size of a small Home Depot plastic bin (because it is one!) For me to spend money on this for ale temps, it would have to be around $75. For lager primary only, around $100.

My comment was more to point out what you could make if it could hit 32F. That would be huge because there is no real way around having a freezer, which for some people has too big of a footprint for their brewing space.

Most people here are saying they wouldn't buy it because a freezer costs about the same, but consider all of the apartment brewers who don't have money as a concern, but space: "$200 for something the size of my carboy that allows me to lager? I'll pay $300 for that!"

But the key is it must be able to lager, because if you still need a fridge to lager, what good is something that gives you the lager primary temperature?
 
Shooter said:
To keep my keg at cellar temp without having to move in a whole new fridge!! :D
Click to expand...

I already have a freezer also, so I could use it to primary one and use the freezer to lager the other, which is what I think you are getting at.

But for that, I wouldn't pay too much because I can already do it in other ways. What I meant was that if it went all the way down to 32F, he would get the market on people who don't have room for a freezer.
 
Airborneguy said:
I already have a freezer also, so I could use it to primary one and use the freezer to lager the other, which is what I think you are getting at.

But for that, I wouldn't pay too much because I can already do it in other ways. What I meant was that if it went all the way down to 32F, he would get the market on people who don't have room for a freezer.
Click to expand...

The market would definitely be more expansive with a wider temperature range. I do all my fermenting and lagering in one dorm fridge, my tiny freezer is filled with kegs I'm dispensing. I would mostly want this to keep cask ales cool on a beer engine, but could also use it to ferment ales or lagers during the time period when my fermentation refrigerator is otherwise occupied. It's definitely not a one stop solution, but, at the right price, I would be interested in one.
 
This would be really nice to jacket a high end piece of gear, like a conical...the jackets I've seen at B3 are bulky and require glycol....so there's a market there for sure. But for something as small as a carboy, it's just too expensive. You could only use this on one at a time. For the same price, you can get a chest freezer, which will also serve as a kegerator.

JMO...I'm all about innovation!
 
Aaron - this looks great. Will the jacket fit over a 15.5g Sankey key (what many of us use for fermentation?) Can you feed the temperatures to the jacket from an element that is slid into a thermowell so that the jacket is controlling temperate to the center of the beer instead of the outside of the fermenter? Thanks Aaron!
 
Thanks for the explanations Aaron. Hopefully you wind up coming in at a price point that works for the market. Maybe it will work for me or not.. but I'm a bit cheap. (I'd fall into the needs to be less that $100 to consider category) That is exactly the kind of product the home brew community needs though.. It takes up little space and meets a big need. I'll still be making a fermentation chamber but maybe one day will wind up with a couple of those as well. Being able to independently control temps in each carboy seems advantageous.
 
ScubaSteve said:
This would be really nice to jacket a high end piece of gear, like a conical...the jackets I've seen at B3 are bulky and require glycol....so there's a market there for sure. But for something as small as a carboy, it's just too expensive. You could only use this on one at a time. For the same price, you can get a chest freezer, which will also serve as a kegerator.

JMO...I'm all about innovation!
Click to expand...

This is really good thinking. One of the main reasons I have never really considered using a conical is due to the problems I'd have keeping it under temperature control.
 
Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. The current design incorporates a thermowell so the temp is regulated from the center and not at the wall where the cooling is. So far as larger sizes, it's possible but will require further testing as power requirements will increase greatly with those volumes.
 
Aaron,

I do not feel that too much of a temperature difference is required by many of us. Many of us fermenter in our basements where the temperatures vary from 60-70 degrees from Winter to Summer. The ability to reduce a 15.5 gallon keg of beer from 70 deg to 65 deg or from 60 degrees to 55 degrees could be huge. 5-10 degrees might not seem like much, but to me it would be hugely helpful.

Do you think you could apply a jacket to a larger vessel and, with more power, be able to reduce the temperature of those larger volumes? What is the science behind these jackets?

FWIW, I would buy several jackets to fit kegs even with a modest 5-10 degree benefit. 20 degrees would be incredible.
 
Funny- I was just talking about this exact idea to product designer friend recently, but I lack the ability to engineer something like this! I have pages and sketches of notes and the big question was how to get the peltier to work effectively w/ a wrap. Good job and I am glad someone is finally doing this! Even if you did steal my idea…;)

FWIW- the main value I saw for me was to get the lagering temps for primary- I would simply lager in the keg (cuz that's how I roll), but i do see the ultimate value in being able to get the cold temp for the long sleep.

Another thought- have you thought of making it a combo heater/cooler jacket? it would be easy enough to just switch the polarity to the TEC - I believe that's how the B3 conicals work. That would certainly add some value having 1 piece of equip w/ multiple functions.
 
meadowstream said:
Aaron,

I do not feel that too much of a temperature difference is required by many of us. Many of us fermenter in our basements where the temperatures vary from 60-70 degrees from Winter to Summer. The ability to reduce a 15.5 gallon keg of beer from 70 deg to 65 deg or from 60 degrees to 55 degrees could be huge. 5-10 degrees might not seem like much, but to me it would be hugely helpful.

Do you think you could apply a jacket to a larger vessel and, with more power, be able to reduce the temperature of those larger volumes? What is the science behind these jackets?

FWIW, I would buy several jackets to fit kegs even with a modest 5-10 degree benefit. 20 degrees would be incredible.
Click to expand...

Those of us Texas will need the full 20 degrees or more. We don't have have basements so we end up fermenting in garages that can get into the high 90s in the summer.
 
Ravenshead - absolutely understand that in warmer climes without basements that the heat transfer requirements will be greater by far than here in New England. Everything needs to be bigger in Texas, right?
 
If some of you have lagering fridges, you could ferment in your fridge, then wrap this around the your carboy and drop the additional 20-30 degrees (as this claims it can do). Then you still have the rest of your space in the fridge to start your next lager.
 
*half-serious mode* My wife is going through menopause, will the jacket be available in her size? *end half-serious mode*

I've thought about building something like a cryo-cuff to pump cold water around a fermentor. In terms of energy usage peltiers have notoriously poor efficiency. Couple that with the fact that the peltier won't be making perfect contact with the side of the carboy plus I see no hint of a heatsink/fan in the product mockup to help move heat away from the hot side (it may be there just not in the picture) and I think there are better ways to accomplish this task.

Nevertheless, best of luck Aaron.
 
I could be wrong, but I think if you reverse polarity on peltier units, it reverses the heat exchange, so if you could hook it up to switch when heat is needed, it'd be (potentially) a pretty effective climate controller all in one... just a thought :)
 
I'd be interested in something like this. I had a refrigerator for fermenting (and one for my kegs), but my wife filled the freezer with food, and now I have the refrigerator part filled with beer. I'm looking at getting a third refrigerator just for beer (and I've warned my wife it's just for fermenting :rolleyes:) but this might be a better solution. It's starting to warm up, so I have to figure out what I'm going to do this summer.
 
Aaron if you are looking to patent this idea give me a PM. I believe I may be the only home brewer / patent attorney in the world.
 
Old thread, but I'm wondering what happened. It seems that this product still isn't available. Aaron, any word?
 
So the jacket is still alive, but development is taking a bit longer than expected (especially when you enroll in grad school half way through the process). We have a working prototype developed and have brewed close to 15 batches with it and I'm very happy to report that it works as advertised over a pretty large sample set. Some lagers, some ales, all work real well.

Time frame isn't exact, but expect more news over the coming months. Ideally something in the form of a kickstarter project, but we'll see what ultimately becomes feasible. Keep tuned!
 
as a fellow grad student I feel your pain.

I am definitely interested in this idea seeing as I live in an apartment in Miami and its proved difficult/impossible to convince SWMBO to find a place to put a freezer. It would be truly awesome if it could go down to lagering temps, but I would still be strongly interested in it just to stabilize ale temps. I think the current price on the page ($299) is a little too rich for my grad student budget, especially if its only for ales, but its definitely something I will keep my eye on.

Many thanks and keep up the hard work Aaron. Please keep us up to date as this would take a lot of stress out of brewing in south florida.
 
I had no idea these guys have been around since 2011. I met Aaron at this year's homebrew conference. I think it is a great product for someone who has very limited space to ferment and can not use something larger as a fermentation chamber. Or perhaps someone who does not brew often enough to keep a chest freezer around to manage fermentation temps.

The problem is that the initial kickstarter price is probably going to be more expensive than buying a 7cu ft chest freezer and controller. I do not recall the exact price but it was in the neighborhood of $300. This is why I think it will be a product that a very small portion of the homebrew community might want.
 
I can't tell from the diagrams how a blowoff or airlock works with it. Looks like the device itself only works with non-carboy fermentors, and the jacket closes over the lid with no room for either. Any updates?
 
They have no addressed the airlock yet. Right now it is two metal rods that submerge in the beer. It is basically a peltier cooler with a temp controller build in. The plastic bucket lid has two holes cut into the center to accommodate for those rods. Since the airlock hole is usually off centered on the lid, it would not be impacted by this product.
 
We've been around since 2011, but mainly doing development and testing. The project started off as a way to brew lagers in a small hot apartment in Atlanta, GA, but grew into something far more substantial over the next two years. I've brewed around 30 batches of beer with it, and beer quality from temperature stability alone astounded me.

Chest freezers are nice if you're fermenting a barrel or serving and lagering at the same time. The LagerJacket however doesn't use compressors, glycol, pumps, etc, so you don't get the constant on-off-on-off causing mechanical wear and large temp swings. Since it's all TEC based, we can modulate the power so you get a precise temp at 1/4 to 1/8 the wattage. Certainly not for everyone, but I'm excited about opening up the world of lagers for my fellow apartment dwellers, or even a way to get more fermentation stability for commercial brewers doing pilot batches.
 
I'm looking forward to the kickstarter campaign. :rockin:

This sounds like a great product, if it works as advertised. I already have a dedicated fermentation/lagering chest freezer, but it can only hold one vessel at a time, and I don't have any more room for another one, so right now it's kind of a bottle neck in my pipeline. This certainly seems more space-efficient.
 
Even though I'm not sure it is something that will fit into my fermentation system I am very excited for this kickstarter. Every new homebrewing product on the market makes this hobby stronger.
 
Does the LagerJacket also heat? It may be a silly question, but in the winter I have challenges getting my Ales up to a good temp.
 
We haven't built heating into the system, but it is something that the tech is capable of. For the first version we are concentrating on cooling without complicating our electronics, but in future versions, this is something we are very interested in including.
 
aaronwalls said:
We haven't built heating into the system, but it is something that the tech is capable of. For the first version we are concentrating on cooling without complicating our electronics, but in future versions, this is something we are very interested in including.
Click to expand...

Would you consider something for small-batch brewers? So far, I'm sticking to 1-gallon brews.
 
I actually went to your ks page willing to donate about 150 figuring that it would get me one of the units....$399? What are you planning on retailing them for?
 
The current plan is to retail them for $399, as the raw materials alone far exceed $150.

One very important thing to note is The LagerJacket uses 90w of electricity. If you were to run it 24/7 for a year, it would cost you $24 in electricity. If you did the same with a second hand chest freezer, the bill would be close to $200. A new chest freezer, it would be around $100.
 
I wanted to float an idea by the community that we've been discussing internally. We are very interested in splitting the system up and allowing people to purchase individual components, allowing it to become more of an open-source system.

For example if you already had a temperature controller, you don't need to use ours, simply buy the other components and save $50 on that piece. Or if you already had an insulated fermenter, you could just buy the other components and save $75 on the jacket.

Thoughts?
 
I'd drop $400 on this. Sometimes I like to DIY, but other times it's just too much of a hassle to bring all of the components together. This is something that I would much rather pay someone else to put together for me.
 

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