Temp increases take forever on my manual HERMS?

[sidepart]

Was hoping to maybe get some advice, I'll have to post some pictures later.

I have a rectangular 52qt cooler (igloo), and recently made a manifold to replace the SS braid. Manifold is made of 4x 1/2" CPVC pipes spaced 2" apart, and about 1" from sides of the cooler. The pipes run the length of the cooler like in Palmer's example. The difference with mine is that the manifold outlet faces the opposite direction and I use plastic tubing to connect to the cooler outlet (I have to start a siphon to get it going, but not a big deal). I made a recirculating (sparge?) arm to go with it. It's also 1/2" CPVC pipe and is basically setup like an H. At the tips of the H, I have 90 degree bends facing up, and I will try to rest the arm just above the grain bed. The H is about half the length of the cooler so I'm not recirculating on the edges, and leaves about 2 or 3 inches on either side of the width of the cooler, and I center it in the cooler.

Now to my problem. I decided to test this system out with water last night. I was able to recirculate and dial in a water temp of 131F (a possible first temperature rest). Then I tried to jump it up to 152F. I'm measuring the temp of the liquid as it exits the recirculating arm, and I have managed to quickly get the temp of the recirculating arm to 152F easily. Problem is that after 15-20 minutes, the water in the cooler is stuck around 146F, and I didn't feel like waiting around to see if it ever went higher than that.

Am I doing something wrong? I've been reading people generally can cycle all of the water in their mashtun in about 5-10 minutes and reach their next mash temp.

Some things I'm concerned about:

• I don't have a lid on the cooler when recirculating.
• It's 55F in my basement, maybe the water is just getting cold fast?
• Maybe my equipment sucks? Maybe my recirculating arm isn't covering enough area?
• Maybe it's not an issue at all, and I should try it again with grain, because water loses heat faster than a thick mash?
• Maybe I'm not recirculating fast enough? (Valve was only ~1/4 open so I don't theoretically run off too quickly and suction the grain bed)

Some things I'm not too concerned about:

• The manifold. I tested with some food coloring, doesn't seem to be channeling.

 

[MrNatural]

Do you have pics of your system/process? Having a hard time visualizing it. Are you doing it like a decoction?
First thing I'd do is get lid on MLT.

 

[sidepart]

Sorry, I don't think I mentioned. I'm recirculating the mash through a 3/8" copper coil in a pot of hot water. Copper coil is something like 45' worth of tubing.

I'll head down and grab some photos.

 

[sidepart]

Pictures attached.

Sent from my HTCONE using Home Brew mobile app

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Close the lid, the problem should go away

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[Yooper]

How are you heating and recirculating the water? In order for the wort in the coil to heat, there can be no hot or cold spots in the water around the HERMS coil (the heat exchanger). I have a little stirrer to agitate the water around the HEX, with an electric element to heat the water.

I have a three degree variation between the water temperature and mash temperature.

 

[sidepart]

How are you heating and recirculating the water? In order for the wort in the coil to heat, there can be no hot or cold spots in the water around the HERMS coil (the heat exchanger). I have a little stirrer to agitate the water around the HEX, with an electric element to heat the water.

I have a three degree variation between the water temperature and mash temperature.

I just have the coil in a kettle of water that I'm direct firing. I fill the kettle up to about 6 gallons and figured that'd be pretty uniform heat distribution. I use a chugger pump to recirculate.

Not sure I can close the lid with that wood contraption on there for the recirculating arm.

 

[sidepart]

Close the lid, the problem should go away

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Home Brew mobile app

Hm...starting to think it is the lid.

Just doing a test run today. Dumped in some 180F mash-in water, and was prepared to wait for it to come down to the temp I want for mash in (168F is what I calculated). The minute I dumped the water in there, it shot down 20F. Ooof! Guess I'll just heat up some more water for mash-in and just use this to keep things warm.

 

[MrNatural]

Not sure I can close the lid with that wood contraption on there for the recirculating arm.

Get rid of the wood thingie. Punch hole in lid and use whatever clamp you have now to secure your mash return.

Gotta ask... is one of your hoses draped over your burner?

 

[sidepart]

Get rid of the wood thingie. Punch hole in lid and use whatever clamp you have now to secure your mash return.

Gotta ask... is one of your hoses draped over your burner?

Actually, this worked well. I didn't punch a hole, but I got rid of the wood thing, and then just set the recirculating/sparge arm on top of grain bed. Then I was able to place the lid on top and have the hose running out the side (lid being cracked open slightly). After so many frustrations and tests, everything has gone PERFECT today.

Punching a hole in the top would probably make this the next best step, but the bargain I had with my wife is that I wouldn't damage the cooler to the point where we couldn't use it as...a cooler. And I can't buy a new one when we have a perfectly good one laying about. I know, quick $25-40 solution, buy another cooler, but meh.

Also, nope that hose isn't draped over the burner. Passes to the side of it though. It's a static placement, but good thought, maybe I should pay more attention when hooking up the hose and run it on the outside of the wire shelf I'm using.

 

[beerrab]

Lots of good information. I am trying to do this as well, but I have not made it this far yet.

Thanks

 

[sidepart]

Lots of good information. I am trying to do this as well, but I have not made it this far yet.

Thanks

Thanks!

I'll also add that my most recent batch with this (a 1.074 IPA) came out at 92% efficiency. Ridiculous. I overshot my gravity so much that I had to ADD water...and now I'm going to have an extra 1.5 gallons roughly of this stuff. The only change I made from my other post was that I sparged much more slowly. I believe the batch I mentioned in post on 1/26 was 78%...so wow.

Let me know if you or anyone else has any questions about my setup. Pretty simple now that I know what worked.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks!

I'll also add that my most recent batch with this (a 1.074 IPA) came out at 92% efficiency. Ridiculous. I overshot my gravity so much that I had to ADD water...and now I'm going to have an extra 1.5 gallons roughly of this stuff. The only change I made from my other post was that I sparged much more slowly. I believe the batch I mentioned in post on 1/26 was 78%...so wow.

Let me know if you or anyone else has any questions about my setup. Pretty simple now that I know what worked.

I was getting 83-85% consistently of first 3 batches and then something a simple as Crushing my own grain (or the fact that it came from another source) changed it to 70%.... adjusted crush and I hit 78% on last batch. These were also different recipes so..