Switch to Keg or All Grain?

[trojan]

I am pretty new at this, 3 extract brews with varied results. Nothing bad or undrinkable, just some were better than others. I have put a little away to help build my hobby/addiction and am deciding do I want to start buying equipment to go all grain or buy equipment to start Kegging. A refrigerator or freezer is in the near future as my wife has banned the, in her words the beercano from fermenting in our clothes closet again. I am leaning towards going all grain first but wanted some feedback on which made the most sense.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm in pretty much the same place as you. I decided to go the kegging route, buying one each of a 5-gallon and 1.5-gallon torpedo keg from MoreBeer. (I like 'em, btw). Bought a couple 5-pound CO2 canisters, a tapright double-gauge regulator, and a picnic tap (for now).

One reason I went the keg route is that I could force-carbonate beer right off the fermenter in just a few days, getting drinkable beer that much faster. In fact, I did just that tonite in anticipation of a poker game--bringing some homebrew along in bottles.

I'm pretty much done brewing for a couple months unless I get a lucky warm day--I live in Wisconsin, brew in my garage, and need to keep the door open. Brewed last night with temps in the mid-to-upper 30s, and that was cold enough for me.

I'd like to do a keezer, or possibly a small kegerator w/ a small compact refrigerator. Unless I find some more funds, though, or a *very* cheap used freezer or fridge I'm pretty tapped out for now.

I'll likely do all-grain brewing at some point, probably starting w/ BIAB. For that I need a larger kettle, 10-gallons at least.

 

[bvanderhaar]

I only have a dozen to a dozen and a half of brews, but went all grain first, then kegging. The investment is larger with kegging, but well worth it IMO. Saving time without sacrificing quality is my goal at this point; all grain actually extends your brew day. Kegging saves you a ton of time and makes brewing more convenient.

 

[Owly055]

I am pretty new at this, 3 extract brews with varied results. Nothing bad or undrinkable, just some were better than others. I have put a little away to help build my hobby/addiction and am deciding do I want to start buying equipment to go all grain or buy equipment to start Kegging. A refrigerator or freezer is in the near future as my wife has banned the, in her words the beercano from fermenting in our clothes closet again. I am leaning towards going all grain first but wanted some feedback on which made the most sense.

I would start with all grain brewing............ The benefits to cost ratio is far higher. There is almost no cost to starting all grain if you go Brew In A Bag, and there is no good sound reason to do it any other way really. All you need is a brew bag........ and perhaps a larger pot if you don't have the capacity to put grain and water in the same pot. Alternatively, just reduce your batch size a bit, Nothing says you have to brew 5 gallons, 5.5, etc. I've brewed batches in one gallon size, 2.5 gallon, 3, 4, and 4.5 gallon, based on my various fermenter sizes. You don't need to buy a crusher, as your LHBS will crush what you buy at no charge in every case I know of. A crusher later on will save you money by being able to buy 50 pound bags.

As an alternative to kegging, I use the 1.5 gallon Tap-a-Draft system, which is far less cost, and allows me to lay two of these plastic PET bottle "kegs" with taps in my fridge side by side on the second shelf. I've converted them to use a paint ball tank, which lays on an angle right beside them. It's a very budget way to get draft beer, compared to the hundreds of dollars you invest in stainless steel kegs, taps, plumbing, and a kegerator. The bottles themselves are only 10 dollars each, and some of mine are approaching 20 uses....... I call that a GOOD VALUE. They lack the class of stainless, and the virtually unlimited life, but they also lack some of the problems..........Maintenance is zero!


H.W.

 

[jimyson]

Fermentaion control first. Then all-grain with BIAB. Then keg.

 

[TX_Brewing]

Fermentaion control first. Then all-grain with BIAB. Then keg.

I second this..... Seriously the best way to improve your beer. Legging won't make it better, only slightly easier especially with 3 gallon batches.

 

[Beernik]

At three batches, I wouldn't have been ready to make the jump to all grain. It's not that it's harder. But there is more to keep track of and more things that could go wrong.

If you feel like you have a good handle on the all grain process, go AG first. There is a significant cost savings to AG brewing over extract. And a large pot or keggle and BIAB is a cheap way to get into all grain. However you decide to go into AG, you want a pot that is at least double the volume you want to brew.

If AG brewing seems complicated to you, start kegging.

Before either, though, I'd invest in temperature control for fermenting. Maybe build a stir plate and an IC first too.

 

[beergolf]

Fermentaion control first. Then all-grain with BIAB. Then keg.

I agree with fermentation temp control. That is big big for making better beer. Hands down, I would do this first.

All grain would be second. BIAB is cheap, but a cooler mash tun is not that expensive. Either way it gives you a lot more control of the brew process. Perfect that and you will make better brews.

Kegging is nice but does nothing to improve your brews. I still bottle most of my brews because I like variety and brew a lot of beers that like age, so there is no way I can have 20 kegs tied up. I do keg and always have an IPA on tap and then a stout or an Irish red on my nitro tap. But they are better beers because of good fermentation temp control and good understanding of the All grain process.

 

[RM-MN]

At three batches, I wouldn't have been ready to make the jump to all grain. It's not that it's harder. But there is more to keep track of and more things that could go wrong.

If you feel like you have a good handle on the all grain process, go AG first. There is a significant cost savings to AG brewing over extract. And a large pot or keggle and BIAB is a cheap way to get into all grain. However you decide to go into AG, you want a pot that is at least double the volume you want to brew.

If AG brewing seems complicated to you, start kegging.

Before either, though, I'd invest in temperature control for fermenting. Maybe build a stir plate and an IC first too.

There isn't much difference in things to keep track of nor much difference in the time it takes to go all grain via BIAB. Heat your water to a specific temperature, drop in a bag and stir in the grains. Put a lid on and wrap with a coat or sleeping bag and wait. Pull the bag out to drain and the mash is done. If your grains are milled fine mashing will take the same amount of time as steeping grains.

 

[jimyson]

Yeah, Honestly, I went straight into 3v all-grain right out of the gate. Research, research, research.

 

[Owly055]

There isn't much difference in things to keep track of nor much difference in the time it takes to go all grain via BIAB. Heat your water to a specific temperature, drop in a bag and stir in the grains. Put a lid on and wrap with a coat or sleeping bag and wait. Pull the bag out to drain and the mash is done. If your grains are milled fine mashing will take the same amount of time as steeping grains.

I agree with this........... In fact after a hiatus of 44 years since my last extract brew, I decided to take up brewing again and started with all grain brewing, crafting my first recipe on Brewer's friend, and all but 2 of the 114 brews I've made in the nearly 2 years since. All grain brewing is easy, there really is nothing complex about it. The additional time mashing is for most people an hour, during which time you don't need to be there or worry about it. In fact I frequently start a mash at noon, and drain the bag and go to boil when I get home from working. It doesn't have the dire effect of producing "ultra dry beer" as some suggest, due to the temp loss during the mash, as well as the denaturing of enzymes. With a fine crush.... which requires your own mill or the willingness of the LHBS to adjust theirs to your specifications, you can reduce mash time to 20 minutes and get a full conversion. It is not necessary as many people insist to boil 60 to 90 minutes, I rarely boil over 30 minutes, and we even have members doing no boil / no chill........ an interesting twist to brewing.
Don't get bogged down in the idea that all grain is complicated..... it is NOT, unless you choose to make it complicated. It opens up a whole new realm, and can be a wonderful adventure for the adventurous.

That said, extract brewing with steeping grains / partial mash brewing can produce some excellent products, is not I would hope looked down upon by all grain brewers... except a few snobs. All grain brewing reduces cost as well as opening up a world of new techniques and materials to try.

"I brew, therefore I am", to paraphrase René Descartes. What you brew or how you brew (or how often) is not as important as that you brew.

H.W.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

Definitely temp control first. Find a used freezer or fridge off Craigslist. Build a cheap stc controller for it. Should cost less than $100 total.


Buy a couple large paint strainer bags and give biab a shot, if your kettle is large enough. Super cheap alternative. If not, buy a cooler from HD and make a cheap mash tun. That costs about $60. Still cheap! Check the DIY section on this website. It's possibly the best section here!

Kegging equipment is an addiction, and expensive. Well worth it though. Lol! Check the for sale section here often, and Craigslist. Save a ton.

Check www.homebrewing.org for used kegs. The "loose handle/bottom" kegs are a great deal. www.ritebrew.com for parts and faucets. www.bargainfittings.com for just about anything else.

Again, if you want to save money, check the for sale section here first. Then Craigslist. Most used stuff is still in great shape, and the prices for new are atrocious.

 

[brewcat]

Fermentaion control first. Then all-grain with BIAB. Then keg.

I did the opposite. I started kegging and two brews later was doing all-grain (three vessel because I hated messing with a bag of grain during my partial mashes). Still working on fermentation control but my basement is consistent, probably by summer.

To the OP:
Just do what you will get the most enjoyment from and go from there. For me kegging got me way into this hobby.

 

[imasickboy]

Going all grain will pay for kegging in the long run. Much quicker if you buy grain from a local brewery or get in on a group buy.

More importantly, all grain will immerse you deeper into the world of brewing beer, rather than deeper into the world of packaging beer. Ultimately you will end up doing both if you're in it for the long haul, so you might as well start saving some money by being able to utilize cheaper fermentables.

Brewing is not cheap. Well, it could be, but there's always more cool stuff to buy, so save those dollars where you can.

 

[Elkobrewer]

Let me see kegging or all grain. I say do which ever one you want to do first. Kegging is great no more bottling which takes forever and increases the chance for infection or bottle bombs also it takes hours to bottle a 5 gallon batch. Or on the other hand go all grain which will give you more control of your brew day and save you about 10 to 15$ a brew after the cost of the equipment. Just to find out that your beer is not that much better then using extract. So to answer the question do what ever one you want to do first. Hope I was not rambling on too much

 

[Iseneye]

If it is a money issue then there is a massive difference between the two options. If you already have a big enough pot then the cost to go all grain is whatever a bag is - say $20. If you want to keg you need a fridge, CO2, fittings and kegs. Kegging will cost hundreds of dollars (unless you're lucky enough to get second hand everything). You could convert to all grain tomorrow if you wanted to.

My suggestion would be fermentation control then all grain then kegging but I'm biased because that is the route I went.

 

[Kampenken]

I'd choose AG over kegging first.

You didn't mention where you live and if you have a basement. If you are in the North, you can get away without temp control for a least the next few months, however, it is most important for to get that under control

Also, depending on budget, if you can drop ~800, the Grainfather would be a very smooth and easy way to AG. One single system, and you won't be adding on and adding on, as many whom go AG find themselves doing. Its a higher priced BIAB option, but really slick.

Enjoy the hobby! You can make great beer, and lots of great advice/considerations here on HBT. Cheers!

 

[bvanderhaar]

To the OP:
Just do what you will get the most enjoyment from and go from there. For me kegging got me way into this hobby.

I agree with this - maybe try to clarify your goals. If you want to get closer to how microbreweries work - go all grain. Some still bottle condition so you are close to their process.
If you want to spend less time brewing and more time drinking or doing other things - I think the obvious answer is kegging. Honestly spending the extra few dollars to speed up my brew day could be worth it some scenarios/to some people.

I'm surprised by the number of people saying all grain - especially for cost reasons. It made a negative difference in my beer at first AND extended my brew day. Is that worth it for $5-10?

 

[TylerAI]

i love me some bud light *****

I can't tell where you are at, but for my area fermentation control is the 1st place to invest. Having the ability to maintain a consistent temperature in the correct range is a huge factor on flavor and quality. Neither AG or extract will taste right if the yeast go squirrly or quit because of the temp.

From there I would go AG.

 

[Yesfan]

If you don't have any way to control fermentation temps, then I wouldn't even think about going all grain or kegging. Get the fermentation side done first.


Then, for me, I like kegging. The first time you pull a pint from your finished kegerator is almost as good as the first sip of your very first homebrew. Kegging has a lot of up front cost, especially if you're going to go all out on building your own kegerator, but it has been worth it to me.


Going all grain is just a matter of adding a $6 mesh bag (ala BIAB), so imo, it's cheap enough I wouldn't know why one couldn't do both. Being able to control fermentation temps trumps both of those though.

 

[SteveHeff]

5 years ago, I found myself in the same situation. A good friend told me that proper fermentation is paramount. However, understanding your technique and equipment is just as valuable. All grain brewing is fantastic. All grain, via BIAB, is a perfect way to go. Efficiency goes up (for most people) and you obtain the same results as using a larger mash tun. It's an easy way to start all grain. I would purchase kegging equipment after learning how your new all grain equipment treats you.

 

[slym2none]

Go all grain. Then, when you want to keg, look at how much money you could be spending on brewing more beer instead, and then keep bottling.

 

[Where_the_Redfern_Brews]

I went kegging before all grain simply because I already had a kegerator and cost isn't an issue with my many hobbies. first world problems

 

[Moose_MI]

well I'm feeling frisky so will offer a little dissent regarding ferm chamber..

Clearly ferm chambers are great and I'm sure I will eventually build one but I will be glad to have it for cold crashing as much (maybe more) as I will be for fermentation. I have a basement that stays constant 68 ambient and a water bath with occasional ice pack seems to work really well for me.

Now....if you live in the dessert and do not have AC then for the love of hops please get a ferm chamber set up....now! For me ... I moved from extract to all grain and recently started kegging...ferm chamber (crash chill chamber) is next and I really haven't missed it.

.....but that's just me...

 

[jrcrilly]

Fermentation control first! Then switch to all-grain, and stash the money saved on ingredients compared to extract brewing to pay for a kegging setup.

 

[titansvol]

Fermentaion control first. Then all-grain with BIAB. Then keg.

I agree.

 

[trojan]

Man, you guys are great! Fermentation control is definitely a must. I failed to mention that a temp controller will be a part of the refrigerator equation when it does arrive. Also I am in south MS so for 9 months of the year it is generally too warm to use our garage to ferment unless it is temperature controlled.

Since you brought it up, which temp controller do you recommend? I am not afraid of wiring or figuring out how to make it work.

As for the original question, I am still on the fence. I really want to do both and will eventually. Before I make the final decision I will be going to an all grain brewing class to learn more about the process and equipment.

 

[hopbrad]

Start all grain BIAB with an $8 dollar mesh bag from a homebrew shop. and temp control by sticking your carboy in a swamp cooler - basically a water bath, cooler, etc with a few frozen water bottles. if you already have that stuff it free for you. rest can go to keggig

i agree with most of comments but id go Keg if your favorite style are hop forward, less malty Pale ales, IPAs, etc. Ive never had a better homebrewed IPA from a bottle than from the keg. atleast to my tastes. oxygen pickup stales the hops first. and unless your using a beer gun or counterpressure filler, your getting some of that O2. if your into bigger beers, maltier beers, etc. then bottling is good. i enjoy bottle conditioned beers for most of those styles better.

 

[TylerAI]

For a temp controller check out an STC-1000. Easy to make, cheap, and works great. There are a billion how-to's on the Forum, youtube etc.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=489744

 

[Kampenken]

Yes, STC1000 for controller. Read the STC 1000+ thread here on HBT. Easy and fun project. And if you go BIAB use a bag from LHBS, not a paint strainer bag (not good idea for higher temps).

 

[Moose_MI]

Stc1000 are great but I think the inkbird controllers are cheaper...just ordered my 2nd one....

 

[barnaclebob]

Go BIAB, much cheaper than 3 vessel and it makes brewing easier for single infusion mashes. I haven't ever done anything besides single infusion FWIW.

 

[Yesfan]

........And if you go BIAB use a bag from LHBS, not a paint strainer bag (not good idea for higher temps).

I've used both, and never had any temp issues with either. What I hate about the paint strainer bags are the size....5 gallons is the limit, so it's a pretty small bag if you have a 10 gallon kettle.


One could use multiple bags, but I would rather have one bag to clean. The 5 gallon paint strainer bags are great for small batches however. Mine fit perfect on my 5 gallon kettle.

 

[Owly055]

I've used both, and never had any temp issues with either. What I hate about the paint strainer bags are the size....5 gallons is the limit, so it's a pretty small bag if you have a 10 gallon kettle.


One could use multiple bags, but I would rather have one bag to clean. The 5 gallon paint strainer bags are great for small batches however. Mine fit perfect on my 5 gallon kettle.

You can buy many sizes of brew bags............ Most LHBS have quite a few selections, and of course you can buy them online from one of our members that makes the best brew bags you can buy......


H.W.

 

[Kampenken]

Stc1000 are great but I think the inkbird controllers are cheaper...just ordered my 2nd one....

I got my STC for $12 + ~$8 shipping from China (damn), so for $20 I can then flash it using alphaomega's awesome STC 1000+ project. How much did you pay for the Inkbird? With the STC 1000+ you can ramp temps, not so with the Inkbird, this is an advantage for me at least.

 

[Kampenken]

I've used both, and never had any temp issues with either....

They are made of plastic, with high temps they will leach chemicals into your beer, not something I want. Use a proper strainer bag. Low temps, dry hopping, are ok, as I understand.

 

[Moose_MI]

I got my STC for $12 + ~$8 shipping from China (damn), so for $20 I can then flash it using alphaomega's awesome STC 1000+ project. How much did you pay for the Inkbird? With the STC 1000+ you can ramp temps, not so with the Inkbird, this is an advantage for me at least.

i will say again...the stc1000 is great....and you are great...your ferm chamber is great...

...the $12 stc1000 is a thermostat that is the beginning of a project that will result in a ferm chamber after some additional $, time and effort. The OP can figure out which is "cheaper" for himself

....and the new inkbird The inkbird 310T has a timer to raise temps.....good enough or me and I didn't even need a coping saw....

 

[govner1]

Fermentation control first! Then switch to all-grain, and stash the money saved on ingredients compared to extract brewing to pay for a kegging setup.

^^^This! I was lucky enough to start with AG but ferm temp control is the most important thing for consistency!

 

[Ungoliant]

Yeah, ferm control, all-grain, then kegging.

Personally, I think kegging is a bit overrated. I think the only time that it would really be needed is with maybe IPAs, where you want to drink it fresher and faster.

Otherwise, as long as you get your bottles back or restock them with storebought brew, you don't have to worry about buying any additional stuff like CO2 or kegs.

 

[Kampenken]

i will say again...the stc1000 is great....and you are great...your ferm chamber is great...

...the $12 stc1000 is a thermostat that is the beginning of a project that will result in a ferm chamber after some additional $, time and effort. The OP can figure out which is "cheaper" for himself

....and the new inkbird The inkbird 310T has a timer to raise temps.....good enough or me and I didn't even need a coping saw....

Not following this at all. First I falsely assumed you meant the similar to STC 1000 Inkbird for similar price- and thus without these options.... But you're quoting one that is $55 v $20. And STILL needs a ferm chamber, so not following at all, maybe OP can make sense of it!