Stuck Fermentation & Cider Sickness ?

[jeanzanita]

Hi there,

I'm relatively new to cider-making; although I've successfully made a few batches of dry, carbonated cider from store-bought juice. For those batches I used either a champagne yeast or SafCider. With both, fermentation occurred pretty quickly and stabilized at @.997 S.G.

However, this progress on my newest batch is very different and I'm not sure about a couple of issues. I bought the juice direct from an orchard - basically a drinking cider, not from cider apples. The owner says that apples were Johnagold, honeycrisp...and some other dessert apple. The juice was flash-pasteurized; I got it the same day it had been pressed.

I used WLP775 PurePitch English Cider yeast, for the first time.

1st issue: the S.G. seemed to get stuck at @1.004 - I think (?) this might be ok for a somewhat sweet cider, but I was hoping for dry. So I added some nutrient and let it go a while longer, but after a month, I only have @1.003. I was wondering if I should try and add a different yeast, like the ones I previously used and try to to for a drier cider. Anybody think this will work - or just produce problems ?

2nd issue: Slightly vinegar taste. This occurred directly after primary fermatation. During fermentation, the cider had a 'banana' smell. Which smelled wonderful, but according to this, might be 'cider sickness'?

"Cider 'sickness' is a disorder caused by bacteria of the genus Zymomonas... These organisms ferment sugars in the same way as yeasts, but they also produce large amounts of acetaldehyde which is said to give an odour of lemon or banana skins."
http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm

When I opened the bucket at about S.G. 1.005 to switch to secondary, there were some whitish/transparent patches of ? floating on the surface - which to me, just looked like they could just be stuff that hadn't settled. Those disappeared and have not returned in secondary.

Could this slightly vinegary taste disappear after months of aging - or should I not waste my time bottling? other than that, there are good apple flavors that seem promising.

Thanks for any and all feedback !

 

[BrewSavage]

Instead of slight "vinegar" could you call it "tangy?"

Sounds like a proper English farmhouse scrumpy to me. Enjoy it.

 

[jeanzanita]

Instead of slight "vinegar" could you call it "tangy?"

Sounds like a proper English farmhouse scrumpy to me. Enjoy it.

I would say a bit "acid" if that's what you mean by tangy.

It's all an experiment, and if I can't do anything about it, I'll just wait and see...hopefully it will mellow a bit with time and be more drinkable

 

[RPh_Guy]

White patches, esters, and vinegar:
There are some wild yeast and/or bacteria in your cider. Either the cider mill did a bad job pasteurizing or it got contaminated on your end. Protect from oxygen.
Some of us enjoy wild cider. If that's not your style, use sulfites.

Vinegar (if that's what it is) will not mellow with time.

FG 1.004:
Apple juice contains sorbitol, which is non-fermentable. Organic acids (malic acid, lactic acid, acetic acid, etc) and other organic compounds also contribute to density. It's probably not "stuck", it's done.

Cheers

 

[jeanzanita]

White patches, esters, and vinegar:
There are some wild yeast and/or bacteria in your cider. Either the cider mill did a bad job pasteurizing or it got contaminated on your end. Protect from oxygen.
Some of us enjoy wild cider. If that's not your style, use sulfites.

Vinegar (if that's what it is) will not mellow with time.

FG 1.004:
Apple juice contains sorbitol, which is non-fermentable. Organic acids (malic acid, lactic acid, acetic acid, etc) and other organic compounds also contribute to density. It's probably not "stuck", it's done.

Cheers

Thanks for the feedback - I think I did pretty good keeping oxygen out, but you never know. Possibly not properly pasteurized. I will leave it as 'done' and just let it be a slightly sweet cider. As far as mellowing; I'll have to wait and see! Not with high hopes though. Next time, I'll use campden tablets on any orchard cider, just in case. Lesson learned !

 

[jeanzanita]

UPDATE: posting an update for info in case anyone can benefit.

Leaving the cider sit for awhile while I was on a 2-week vacation; I found that it was a bit reduced in acid when I got back. The cider had been divided into 4 1-gallon jugs in order to do a little experimentation - plain, and with 3 varying degrees of tannins. The one highest in tannin seemed to be best; which leads me to believe that it was a very acid apple juice and the addition of tannins help to balance; paired with the fact that there seemed to be "secondary fermentation" after complete fermentation which in my beginner's understanding was probably malo-lactic fermentation.

I went ahead and bottled.

I am more hopeful at this point that time will mellow the batch even more. I'll check back in a few weeks.