Stir plate question for 10 gallon batches

[FoCobrewguy]

I have not used a stir plate yet or made starters but want to start using them as I believe there is a benefit to using them. My question is for those of you that do 10 gallon batches. I am in the process of finishing upgrades so that I can handle 10 gallon. My plan is to do 5 and 10 gallon batches. 10 gallons of one recipe that I have finalized and like or doing 10 gallon batches that I will split into two fermenters and try different yeast or maybe some other experiments.

I understand that for 5 gallon batches something like the stir starter with a 2L flask will work for most average gravity beers. For a 10 gallon batch if I am going to ferment it all together as the same beer than I would need a bigger stir plate that can handle up to 5L.

These are the options I see:
1. Buy a larger stir plate that can handle anywhere from 1L to 6L. For 10 gallon batch it is all set to go, for a split batch I could make one starter just a day earlier and have it sit in the fridge an extra 24 hours while I make the second starter.

2. Buy 2 small stir plate that can handle 2L. For a single batch I can run them both and just dump both in the fermenter, for a double batch I am already to go.

3. Buy 1 large and 1 small stir plate. This way I have one that can handle any single batch I want to do and 1 that can run a small starter for a split batch.

Options 1 and 2 are essentially the same cost, 2 small units cost about the same as 1 large unit. The two 2L flasks will be slightly cheaper than a 2L and a 5L. Option 3 would be more expensive but make things as easy as possible in my eyes. I am not strapped for cash but I don't like to waste money. If something is going to save me time and effort than I give value to that but I don't want anything more than necessary.

Anybody that brews 10 gallon batches and splits some while doesn't for others have this dilemma? What would you suggest? Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[mkeckjr]

Option 2 seems the most flexible. I'd just go with that, since you say it's the same cost as option 1.

 

[chickypad]

You left out the option to do 2 steps. I only have one stir plate so that's what I do. For example (using yeastcalc) for a 10g batch of 1.060 beer you need about 418 B cells. With 3 month old yeast that would be a 900 ml starter, chill, decant and pitch into a 1.8 ml starter = 425B. I have do have two 2L flasks so I minimize transfers.

Edit: also, I usually ferment the 10 gals all in one conical, but occasionally I split into 2 fermenters and then I just split the yeast if doing one strain.

 

[revco]

I didn't specifically seek out a special stirplate that could handle 5L vs. 2L, I just went with a solid dude I heard about on here that runs stirstarters.com. Been super happy and I've done 4L starters in a 5L flask...sure, it didn't perform awesome, but it made a ton of yeast and did the job I expected of it. Maybe that's something to think about?

I've been doing 10 gallon batches for awhile now and what I ultimately ended up with were two of the above stir plates, two 2L flasks and one 5L flask. This configuration meets all my needs, whether it's a lager and a huge starter, dual pitch scenarios into a 10g batch split two ways and yeast culturing for storage while I'm whipping up a starter with the same yeast, big or small. I built my kit over time, not all at once...so if there's a philosophy? Spend the money on the plates, but don't necessarily think you have to buy lab grade gear to get decent yeast counts. Simply put, glass is relatively cheap and can easily be added in later to meet future needs.

 

[rossi46]

Why not build a stir plate big enough for a 5 liter flask ? They are pretty easy to build. I made mine in about an hour after sourcing the parts.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Why not build a stir plate big enough for a 5 liter flask ? They are pretty easy to build. I made mine in about an hour after sourcing the parts.

Old, sorry, but I have been searching. I'll build it, just don't know what differences you need with a larger stirplate able to handle a bigger, heavier flask w/wort than the smaller ones. So, for my needs, a 5L flask. Can anyone indicate what you need (i.e., bigger magnets? Different power supply? Fan?). Thanks.

 

[rossi46]

I bought most of my parts at radio shack. Big project box, 12 v power supply, 120mm fan, rocker switch, and rheostat. Epoxied a big ass magnet to the middle of the fan and mounted the fan in the box as close to, but not touching the lid, as possible. A 5 liter flask is bigger than the box but works just fine.

 

[kh54s10]

IMO, most stirplates will do a 5 liter starter. You might have to experiment with stirbars to get a good action.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Thanks guys. I saw somewhere someone mentioning a 120V "Muffin Fan," and a ceiling fan controller, plus a couple other things. I've never heard of a muffin fan until I saw what it is, basically. Now for my dumb part - be kind - I'm only finding 115VAC, not 120VAC. Not that I'm doing that one, but is there a difference? Both run on standard household current, right? And I presume that increased voltage is to give the fan more juice?

Thanks on the info re: a regular stir plate. I didn't know that but I can see how that would work.

I just came across the Stir Starter 5 Liter plate, on Bell's Store. $80 but if it works, sure seems like a bargain compared to some others breaching $100.

Edit: Forgot to say, it seems really cheap to DIY it so even if for whatever reason it doesn't work (if I don't want to step, the most I'll ever need is 3 liters of starter), no biggie. Thanks again.

 

[rossi46]

110-115-120, all the same thing in the USA.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

OK, thanks Rossi. Is that high voltage a means to increase - what, power to drive more starter slurry? Any idea why he went with one of these 120 V muffin fans?

 

[rossi46]

It's just one way to do it, you could do it either way.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

OK, thanks, Rossi.

Funny, I actually came across the post as I'm continuing to search around:

It says that for 10 gal of 1.060 wort youre going to need 418 Billion cells, a two liter starter on a stir plate will get you at a max with day one fresh yeast 310 billion cells. If youre doing 10 gal batches I second the gallon jug idea if you want to save money. I went that route at first because a gallon of carlo rossi wine in a glass jug was 8 bucks at my local grocery store. I got a glass jug and my friends drunk fir 8 bucks..not a bad deal. That worked for a while but after a while I wanted to be able to heat it on the stove and then transfer the container directly to an ice bath to chill it.. so borosilicate glass i went. Luckily my LHBS has 5L erlenmeyer flasks for $35 bucks.

Now to stir that sucker my little 12v pc fan made into a stir plate wasnt gonna cut it. It would throw the magnet before I could get it spinning and on the rare occasion it didnt throw the mag it just couldnt spin the starter wort fast enough to make a vortex.

So I upped the ante. I bought a 120V muffin fan on ebay (~$15 shipped), ceiling fan speed control from HD (~$10), some strong rare earth magnets from an online retailer (~$5 shipped), cannibalized an extension cord I had, and built the box out of some old scrap wood. Now that stir plate with a 1in stir bar with a pivoting ring with throw the starter wort in my 5l flask like nobodys business.. im pretty sure I could put a large vortex in my carboy if i ever felt the need

 

[Jtk78]

I bought 2 of these and made stir plates from them. One is in an old cigar box and thr other is in a plastic spy kit toy case i got from Goodwill. Each stir plate was under $20 to build. The fans come with the power source (I had tons of usb chargers laying around) and a variable speed switch. Has worked really well from a 1 liter starter in a two liter flask all the way up to a 3.5 liter in a 5 liter flask. A longer stir bar has worked well in the 5 liter flask.

Edit to add, I used magnets from Home Depot.

https://www.cyberguys.com/product-d...MIsImdx9nW1gIVAUGGCh2SlAW1EAYYAyABEgIjz_D_BwE

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Looks great, jtk, and at that price! My only question - I see a lot of builds with 120mm fans, and these are 80. No issue if loading bigger things, then (it seems not, given your experience - just confirming).

 

[Gadjobrinus]

This, for instance. I think this would be a "Muffin fan" like what the other member was talking about. What do you think?

Details about AC Infinity AXIAL 1238 Muffin Cooling Fan 115V 120mm by 38mm High Speed

 

[Jtk78]

Looks great, jtk, and at that price! My only question - I see a lot of builds with 120mm fans, and these are 80. No issue if loading bigger things, then (it seems not, given your experience - just confirming).

I have had no issues with a lack of spinning power. In my mind, the diameter of the blades shouldn't really have much effect in what we're trying to accomplish. We're concerned with the magnets we put on the motor "holding" the stir bar. I was throwing 1" bars in the 2L. 1.5" seems to work well though. I have a 2" in the 5L.

I usually have to quickly turn the power up just to get it spinning, then I turn the power all the way down. I built them a year ago and couldn't be happier.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Great. Thanks Jtk, this is really helpful.

 

[IslandLizard]

I would build 2 stir plates, for more flexibility. One yeast for a double batch, or 2 different yeasts for a split batch.

Use 2 strong magnets on a steel washer spaced to match the size of your stir bar. Mount them as close as you can to the surface for optimal coupling.

Also, putting a 5 liter flask in your fridge for cold crashing may pose a space problem. I can't get one to fit unless I remove a shelf, which strongly reduces the useful space. But I can fit two 2 liter flasks on a door shelf, the one intended for gallon milk/juice/ice tea jugs.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Thanks on the idea, Island. I actually have a dedicated lab fridge that can fit a keg for fermenting, if I wanted to, so at least on that end, I think I'm good.

Thanks on the build tips. I don't know why but I'm getting a bit discouraged. Think I woke up on a day my ^&%^%$& of a body is in a typical state of rebellion, I guess. "Buy and be done with it" is screaming at my devil's ear.

Between the Stir Starter 5 L at $80, and this Fermentap, which claims to handle 5L (and my local place selling what looks like an identical make, for $20 cheaper - at $69) well, I guess I'm not the DIY young apprentice I once was, or think I am....

 

[Jtk78]

Also, putting a 5 liter flask in your fridge for cold crashing may pose a space problem. I can't get one to fit unless I remove a shelf, which strongly reduces the useful space. But I can fit two 2 liter flasks on a door shelf, the one intended for gallon milk/juice/ice tea jugs.

Even my 2L wont fit in my beer fridge easily. I put all of my starters in mason jars to cold crash. Just make sure the lid is loose when you do that at first.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks on the idea, Island. I actually have a dedicated lab fridge that can fit a keg for fermenting, if I wanted to, so at least on that end, I think I'm good.

Thanks on the build tips. I don't know why but I'm getting a bit discouraged. Think I woke up on a day my ^&%^%$& of a body is in a typical state of rebellion, I guess. "Buy and be done with it" is screaming at my devil's ear.

Between the Stir Starter 5 L at $80, and this Fermentap, which claims to handle 5L (and my local place selling what looks like an identical make, for $20 cheaper - at $69) well, I guess I'm not the DIY young apprentice I once was, or think I am....

I hear you on projects, they seem to take longer than ever and there's always a snafu or 2 that stalls it. Then you need to push yourself hard to complete the dang things.

I was fortunate enough to score 2 orbital shakers from a good brewing friend who works in a production lab. I think they start squeaking or so, and get "scrapped." He picks them up. They are in perfect condition at least for my use. Once in awhile I hear a little noise from them. Each weighs about 25-30#. I have to put them on the floor when operating them, or everything starts to shake like crazy. Look on eBay you may find a few. Not sure what they would go for though, and how operational they are.

The advantage of the shakers is they can take any vessel, and there's no stir bar that needs balancing. I can put 4 64oz glass pickle jars on each, or 2 2l flasks and a jar. Works like a charm. I even use those clear gallon growlers for larger amounts, like lagers or 10-11 gallon batches.

I'm not sure how good those Maelstrom stir plates are, they are $130 or so, which is quite an outlay. You may find lab type stir plates on eBay or lab outlets too. Many have a hot plate built in that may have failed. Or they just look bad.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Thanks Lizard, some great and helpful thoughts. I did look into a couple orbital shakers but kind of stopped when I saw something well into the 1K's, lol. But I stopped there and never looked into the surplus or used market. Will do, thanks. Same with Ebay, don't know why I've been looking at new only.

Many thanks.

Edit: I originally said "shaker tables," which sounded funny. Who cares about my taste in furniture?

 

[IslandLizard]

Even my 2L wont fit in my beer fridge easily. I put all of my starters in mason jars to cold crash. Just make sure the lid is loose when you do that at first.

My top shelf is mounted as low as possible, in the lowest slot, and I still can't fit 2 liter flasks between the shelf and the inside top of the fridge. They almost fit, but you can't force it.

Now those 64 oz pickle jars fit perfectly, even leaves ample space with the lids screwed on loosely. I would have never thought those pickle jars are so handy! I dump (most) of my yeast cake into one of those after racking, too.